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Slow Line Fast Bump Skiing done slowly.

karlo

Out on the slopes
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May 11, 2017
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NJ
It's "the bowl".

Funny, this past season, I was thinking the marble in the bowl is a great way to conceptualize skiing. But, using it to explain to someone else, I couldn't figure out how to make it non-nonsensical. JF makes a good stab at it in his instructional video, but I am unable to follow it. His guests have the benefit of having the context to the skiing they have been doing.

 

BornToSki683

Putting on skis
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Apr 27, 2017
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113
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Park City
From what I have seen, JF often describes resulting sensations that he experiences and tries to attach analogies to them that will only make sense if you happen to execute whatever it is that he executes to experience those sensations. He is describing the sensation of the outcome and often even that is a little vague. Unfortunately he never seems to explain methodically what the movements are needed to be executed to get there.

He skis with incredible touch and intuition, but I'm not sure he even knows exactly what he himself is executing bio mechanically, much less how to teach it methodically. Instead he tries to describe the outcome which he has intuitively figured out how to experience.

An equivalent situation would be something like a world class quarterback trying to describe how he throws a Hail Mary touchdown pass, in a French Canadian accent: "you want to feeeeeeeel the ball leave your fingers hiiiigghhhhh and loooooooong".

That's great but when I try to throw a football my fingers don't wrap around the ball very well and it feels more like a shot put, and as for high and long....uhmmm ok.

This is not irrelevant! Watching a guy ski like that and hearing him describe what his sensations are is definitely relevant and can possibly contribute in some way. Most of us will not naturally intuit the movements needed without direct step by step instructions though and I often don't feel like I'm hearing that from JF, it's usually some kind of analogy about the outcome, a mental model that works for him. I always sort of have the impression that he learned how to ski without formal instruction or coaching, he just kind of figured it out intuitively on his own and has his own completely unique way of thinking about it, which is not a bad thing, But pay attention to how many times he uses the word "feel". His way of thinking about it is very intuitive and feel based. Its really hard to communicate those kinds of things methodically.
 

Read Blinn

lakespapa
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Posts
1,656
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SW New Hampshire
From what I have seen, JF often describes resulting sensations that he experiences and tries to attach analogies to them that will only make sense if you happen to execute whatever it is that he executes to experience those sensations. He is describing the sensation of the outcome and often even that is a little vague. Unfortunately he never seems to explain methodically what the movements are needed to be executed to get there.

He skis with incredible touch and intuition, but I'm not sure he even knows exactly what he himself is executing bio mechanically, much less how to teach it methodically. Instead he tries to describe the outcome which he has intuitively figured out how to experience.

An equivalent situation would be something like a world class quarterback trying to describe how he throws a Hail Mary touchdown pass, in a French Canadian accent: "you want to feeeeeeeel the ball leave your fingers hiiiigghhhhh and loooooooong".

That's great but when I try to throw a football my fingers don't wrap around the ball very well and it feels more like a shot put, and as for high and long....uhmmm ok.

This is not irrelevant! Watching a guy ski like that and hearing him describe what his sensations are is definitely relevant and can possibly contribute in some way. Most of us will not naturally intuit the movements needed without direct step by step instructions though and I often don't feel like I'm hearing that from JF, it's usually some kind of analogy about the outcome, a mental model that works for him. I always sort of have the impression that he learned how to ski without formal instruction or coaching, he just kind of figured it out intuitively on his own and has his own completely unique way of thinking about it, which is not a bad thing, But pay attention to how many times he uses the word "feel". His way of thinking about it is very intuitive and feel based. Its really hard to communicate those kinds of things methodically.

Precisely. Exactly.

He was a racer, though, until he blew up his spleen, so I imagine he was coached.
 

Read Blinn

lakespapa
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1,656
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SW New Hampshire
I own Project Kitz. He does seem a bit clearer in it, and he's teamed with McGlashan and Lorenz. Haven't seen the Hintertux video — looks a little broader.
 

James

Out There
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Joined
Dec 2, 2015
Posts
24,419
Funny, this past season, I was thinking the marble in the bowl is a great way to conceptualize skiing. But, using it to explain to someone else, I couldn't figure out how to make it non-nonsensical. JF makes a good stab at it in his instructional video, but I am unable to follow it. His guests have the benefit of having the context to the skiing they have been doing.


Yes this one is pretty good for JF. What would really be good is some detailed discussion of the transition and entry into new turn. That's Dr. Ken from Whistler JF is talking to I believe.
The bowl concept I first heard from his videos. It's generally known as getting upside down.
 

jzmtl

Intermidiot
Skier
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Posts
323
Location
Montreal
JFB is the best skier in Eastern CSIA rank without a doubt. Some friends managed to catch the bump run for demo team tryout (same run as video in post #15 albeit to skier's right where it's left bumped up all season long), he pretty much leaves every other level 4 out in the dust.

His explanation definitely isn't as good as his skiing though, when I saw in the end credit of Project Hintertux where he was reading "Ultimate Skiing" I literally laughed out loud.
 

WadeHoliday

Out on the slopes
SkiTalk Tester
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Nov 30, 2015
Posts
458
Location
North Tahoe
So unless you ski the same as Eric, you're not a good skier? Pretty harsh criteria..

I didn't watch the whole vid, but the guy in the purple jacket at around 3.30 is on the national demo team now.


I watched the first 7 min, fun to watch. the purple jacket guy was the only one I would have chosen in that time. the pink helmet girl was great too.
the first red jacket guy, Maybe 3rd, actually demonstrates some of the ideas that started this thread, using a little extra drift, probably a bit older guy, and his line choice is worth looking at for the OP.

Agree completely with BorntoSki thoughts on exciting skiing, and the purple jacket being able to ski that line for many many years... that is something to aspire to, much more then excitement.

Good discussion, love bumps for older guys! I'm planning to go back to teaching 1 day a week this year again, and my focus is old man bumps... and back to some instruction forums to get my teaching passion back.

Cheers,
Wade
 
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wutangclan

Getting on the lift
Skier
Joined
Apr 25, 2017
Posts
121
JF Beaulieu is undeniably a spectacular skier. But a few of my friends have been coached by him in NZ or QC and found that he's on such a different plane of thought that he is unable to make himself understood. Indeed, they often question whether or not he really understands himself. The most common criticism of JFB's coaching (not his skiing) that I heard from multiple people is that he is "too talented". Quite often he would just tell students to "go faster"...which isn't so helpful.

Which is exactly why we need more examples like Josh's thread-starting "slow line slow" video.
 

Wilhelmson

Making fresh tracks
Skier
Joined
May 2, 2017
Posts
4,328
I can't wait to ski icy moguls faster, slow, and low this year.
 

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