Ski by Braille?

[Plai]

Today the visibility was down to like 20 ft at 1030a at the top of Mt Rose. Kit Carson Bowl had a mixture of tracked out soft, crust over soft, and just all things variable. When visibility was good, I was able to survive, adjust to the conditions. But when it was down to 20ft, it was challenging.

Any hints on how to "Ski by Braille"? I'm thinking short turns, but there's got to more? At least, when I'm in bumps I usually get to see the bumps to anticipate the absorption needed; I get to plan my path a bit.

 

[CalG]

sick I know, But when trail conditions are perfect.... I try to "see" how many turns I can complete with my eyes closed.

I'm up to five...... before I fall down. I blame vertigo , and need an artificial horizon instrument.....

These are short turns on wide groomed trails, no trees need to come into the experience. steeper slopes are OK however. ;-)

 

[James]

Stop trying to see. You can't. If you keep trying you set up a failure and frustration loop.
Concentrate on the turn - what you're doing, what skis are doing, where neutral is, the shape.
Regular consistent turns.
Keep a little pressure through extension and or plantar flexing feet at top of turn.
Try to stay loose but with functional tension as in above.
I used to drag uphill or inside pole but that causes leaning in. So tap it instead.
Sing, mumble or something.
Sometimes even with everything you do it gets to you.

I don't really go for the feel with your feet. It's another form of trying to see which leads to frustration, and it's too late.
The not trying to see. If you're in your room and the lights go out and it's pitch black how do you get across it? The mind can start making up Freddy Kruger has just come out of the closet, things are under the couch etc. A lot of what we go through in fog can have more to do with the Freddy Kruger thoughts than getting across the room.

 

[mdf]

James and I had exactly this conversation last year, and I tried to apply what he says. I still have a long way to go, but I fell like I am making progress. "Quit trying to see when you can't " is gold.

 

[Bad Bob]

Loosen everything up and keep turning.

Open your stance a little, get all of the joints flexed, stay neutral on your skis, and link your turns. No traversing, and don't worry too much about carving.

Lots of skiers will get in the back seat and hug the hill in conditions like this. If your hands are within your field of vision, you have decent upper/lower body separation and you don't let yourself look at your ski tips it isn't that tough. You only have to master the 6" between your ears. Skiing near a tree line helps too when you can.

The reason to link your turns is that you are never in a better position to start a turn than at the end of a turn; think about it, it is the exact same body position. If your start traversing between your turns and shop for a spot, lots of bad stuff can happen.

Another very old trick is to whistle or hum to distract yourself, silly but it can work. 'The greatest thing you have to fear, is fear itself'.

 

[Plai]

Stop trying to see. You can't.

So, I should say that I was trying to do just that in the described conditions.
All the usual tricks in bump skiing of staying loose, light patient even turns, and staying balanced.

That said, trying isn't always doing. I tend to be overweight my new outside ski. I guess I need more training

 

[Bill Miles]

Guess I am a wimp, I just wait for a better day.

 

[KingGrump]

Wow, 20 feet? That is a clear day at WB.
We skied Whistler Bowl in white out condition several times this morning. Steep bumps.
It's just SOP up here at WB.
My mother would just tell me "HTFU, princess."

Seriously, couple of things comes to mind.
Don't look for things you can't see. Wasted effort.
Round turns. Really really round turns and make sure you finish your turns.

 

[Philpug]

I am not a fan of flat light at all but when I have to ski it, soft feet, I am ready to absorb because @Bob Barnes says "what you can't see, you will feel".

 

[markojp]

Cuff contact is your friend.

 

[Plai]

I think I need to be more clear. Making the turns and absorbing the changes between snow types were actually pretty good. It's the unseen dips and ski tips planted that literally threw me (over the handle bars). [I mentioned this in the Tahoe thread and forgot to put this detail here.]

I like the usual tips for good skiing: stay forward, round turns, stay loose, light even balanced skiing.
Is there more to be done? Or is "good skiing" just that?

And to paraphrase @KingGrump, just expect the inevitable fall?

 

[Mendieta]

I think I need to be more clear. Making the turns and absorbing the changes between snow types were actually pretty good. It's the unseen dips and ski tips planted that literally threw me (over the handle bars). [I mentioned this in the Tahoe thread and forgot to put this detail here.]

I like the usual tips for good skiing: stay forward, round turns, stay loose, light even balanced skiing.
Is there more to be done? Or is "good skiing" just that?

And to paraphrase @KingGrump, just expect the inevitable fall?

And the occasional injury? I injured my calf last weekend in those conditions, on that same run (KC Bowl): little to no vis and variable snow turning to bumpy/chunky later in the day. Ironically, by the time I got hurt, things were starting to clear up. But my legs were completely beat from doing extra work. I think you want to call it quits as soon as you get tired. And you probably will get tired sooner than usual (that was my mistake, not listening to my body) Not worth the injury

Also, snow conditions will degrade through the day. So, I would start early and get two to three good hours in the morning, and then be prudent I remember @skibob mentioned in a similar thread your same concern. When you can't see, you can't see. You can carve though crud. But you can't carve through everything, and that's a simple physical reality. I can imagine that shorter turns and some skidding for speed control are probably better than flying 20 yards at 50 mph if you hit something unexpected

Have fun Paul, hope to see you on the snow next time. My calf is certainly doing better, but it still hurts a bit, not there yet.

 

[Plai]

@Mendieta I'm glad to hear that you're healing well.

I should also state that I'm usually laughing, giggling when I fall. I don't necessarily fear it, have a lot of respect for it. It's mostly that I enjoy doing whatever that got me there. [Yeah, that's me laughing it up in the bump field. ;-]

Well, the purpose of the thread was to hopefully learn something new to get better, thus avoid said injury. Hopefully the well isn't dry in our collective wisdom.

That said, I've a huge respect for the reminders of getting better fundamentals. Seems like each day out, even though Im probably skiing better than the last, I find myself feeling just the opposite: wanting to perform even better, better anticipation, better rounded turns, lighter on my skis, etc.

 

[Mendieta]

@Mendieta I'm glad to hear that you're healing well.

I should also state that I'm usually laughing, giggling when I fall. I don't necessarily fear it, have a lot of respect for it. It's mostly that I enjoy doing whatever that got me there. [Yeah, that's me laughing it up in the bump field. ;-]

Well, the purpose of the thread was to hopefully learn something new to get better, thus avoid said injury. Hopefully the well isn't dry in our collective wisdom.

That said, I've a huge respect for the reminders of getting better fundamentals. Seems like each day out, even though Im probably skiing better than the last, I find myself feeling just the opposite: wanting to perform even better, better anticipation, better rounded turns, lighter on my skis, etc.

I think there are a bunch of good tips here, perhaps not for you because it's stuff that you know, but it will help others I saw a group of obviously expert folks taking KCBowl the other day. They were doing what both @James and @Bad Bob were suggesting above: consistent, round turns, not the railroad carve I'm sure they normally do on a groomer, more of a brushed turn, but very round and consistent, at moderate speed. I think the latter is key, because, when push comes to shove, a crash at moderate speed is a lot less likely to injure you.

 

[skibob]

@Mendieta I'm glad to hear that you're healing well.

I should also state that I'm usually laughing, giggling when I fall. I don't necessarily fear it, have a lot of respect for it. It's mostly that I enjoy doing whatever that got me there. [Yeah, that's me laughing it up in the bump field. ;-]

Well, the purpose of the thread was to hopefully learn something new to get better, thus avoid said injury. Hopefully the well isn't dry in our collective wisdom.

That said, I've a huge respect for the reminders of getting better fundamentals. Seems like each day out, even though Im probably skiing better than the last, I find myself feeling just the opposite: wanting to perform even better, better anticipation, better rounded turns, lighter on my skis, etc.

Mine was very flat light. I think @Plai is talking fog. But same principle. I found myself launched off of a large pile of snow that I couldn't see. It wasn't a high or long flight, but just the sort of thing to get you out of shape when you don't expect it. I managed the landing fine, in large part due to doing many of the things mentioned above.

Other than that, a GOOD pair of low light lenses really do help. A lot. I have a pair of cycling glasses, yellow lenses, that I wear when driving in a snow storm. My wife used to tease me. Then one day, I asked her, what kind of car is that 3 cars in front of us? She laughed and said there are only two cars in front of us. I handed her the glasses. She put them on and quietly said, "oh!" and handed them back saying, "put them back on!" I used to wear these skiing too, but goggles are obviously preferable in a lot of low light conditions. I finally got a good pair of Scott low light goggles/lenses this year. Not quite as good as my cycling lenses. But close.

 

[crgildart]

Hard to imagine skiing fast enough in pea soup under 20 foot visibility to really matter much. Very slow going short tight turns. Anything beyond that and you are risking a big problem hitting someone or something that you didn't have ample reaction time to avoid.

 

[Kneale Brownson]

I think I need to be more clear. Making the turns and absorbing the changes between snow types were actually pretty good. It's the unseen dips and ski tips planted that literally threw me (over the handle bars). [I mentioned this in the Tahoe thread and forgot to put this detail here.]

I like the usual tips for good skiing: stay forward, round turns, stay loose, light even balanced skiing.
Is there more to be done? Or is "good skiing" just that?

And to paraphrase @KingGrump, just expect the inevitable fall?

Make sure you FINISH those round turns!!! The shin contact is good, but too much will put you in those over-the-handlebars situations. I once puked from vertigo in fog so dense the ski tips were difficult to see.

 

[ScotsSkier]

I have been using the light blue POC lens a lot this year, works pretty well for me in poor light conditions. I didnt actually think yesterday was too bad at Rose. we were running SG for the Comp team on Sunrise without issues. From the start I could see most of the course. Although skiing down to set with a bundle of gates at 07.30 was a bit more interesting given the way the snow had been drifting in!!

 

[mdf]

One thing in particular disorients me in flat light. It is when you come off a pitch to a flat at the bottom. .. I often can't tell if I am still going down and it freaks me out.

 

[skibob]

One thing in particular disorients me in flat light. It is when you come off a pitch to a flat at the bottom. .. I often can't tell if I am still going down and it freaks me out.

I've fallen over more than once after coming to a stop in this situation, LOL. Just watched my son do it a few weeks ago. Its really funny. Nice graceful arc, ends in a perfect hockey stop . . . and then you slowly and inevitably . . . thud . . . slowly fall over sideways. Wish I had it on video!