Colorado Silverton Struggles To Survive In The Vail Epic Era......

[SBrown]

The San Juan Citizens Alliance has filed an appeal of the BLM approval of Silverton's heli expansion.

http://www.sanjuancitizens.org/land...approval-silverton-heli-ski-permit-expansion/

 

[Jeff N]

I missed this thread the first go-around, and sorry I did.

I believe Aaron Brill accurate to say (assuming he wrote the blurb on Silverton's website, and it sure looks like his writing) that ski area consolidation has made it tougher to attract skiers to Silverton. It used to be that season passes were sold to lock in locals, now the game is to lock in destination skiers too. That isn't just a Vail game, as Coleman's little empire of Purgatory, Snowbowl, Sipapu, Pajarito, and Hesperus are in his backyard. I haven't skied Silverton the past 2 seasons. Why? Because Silvy hasn't offered the dirt-cheap unguided pass and I have zero interest in guided skiing there.

I don't buy the argument that Vail has been why unguided skiing has been cut way back (contrary to statements in this thread, there is still unguided skiing at Silverton late season). Back when Silverton offered $200 unguided passes that included 15 days of skiing other places, I know a lot of people bought passes that they never used at Silverton, or they used 1 time. What did Silverton have to pay to other ski areas to offer that deal? I suspect they didn't pay much at all if anything, that is usually how partner benefits between unaffiliated ski areas work- you give our passholders this, we give yours that...

I also suspect lots of partner places felt they lost out on those deals, which is why the partners changed each year. Without good partners, Brill is left selling unguided passes to the 500 people that live in Silverton.

The reality? Unguided days at Silverton are pretty damned deserted, no matter how many passes got sold. Why? The absolute remoteness, coupled with unguided being a victim of Silverton's marketing. They market the place as GNAR HEAVEN. I recommend to anyone that will listen to ski Silverton on an unguided day over a guided. You will get a lot more skiing in and ski what you want to ski instead of being marched out past great lines to farm snow. I don't know any non-local that I have given that advice to that has taken it, probably because the idea of Silverton, reinforced by their marketing, scares the hell out of them. Silverton has absolutely no motivation to make unguided skiing appealing, because guided skiing makes money, and people come for guided skiing because of the mystique.

Vail and Brill are two sides to the same coin. They are both selling a certain image and mystique. With Vail it is the back bowls, the perfect groom, the perfect family vacation. Disneyland on snow at Disneyland prices. Brill/Silverton is selling STEEP AND DEEP BACKCOUNTRY OFF THE LIFT BRAH. Both Vail and Brill largely give you what they sell as their image, what they both leave off is that their experience isn't unique, and you may find better elsewhere for less.

Is Silverton everything it is cooked up to be? Kinda. The terrain is great and none of it is easy, but if you can ski a long 35* run at your ski area, you can ski Silverton. Lots of Silverton terrain is like Pali at A-Basin. But Pali is an hour from Denver, and Silverton is almost 7. Or, you can pay a lot less than unguided for an Aspen ticket, hike Highlands Bowl, and ski HB/temerity all day. if it has snowed recently, powder competition may be better at Silvy, but still in the same universe. Silverton offers a lot of more technical couloirs and cliffs, but a tiny percentage of people even coming to ski Silverton ever actually get on it. I'd bet that stuff gets skied more often by locals on unguided days than during guided season by paying guests.

Brill is cutting back unguided skiing because they have no interest in offering unguided skiing. Frankly, they don't actually want people to feel they can approach Silverton Mountain solo with confidence, that undercuts the marketing that draws destination guided skiers. They haven't been able to attract unguided skiers from out of the area through their pass, and they probably doubly hate when a season passholder with a partner area comes out and uses the day and they don't see the revenue. If it loses money and undercuts the mystique, why do it?

TL/DR- Brill is cutting back unguided season because there isn't enough local residents to make it pay, and it undercuts the marketing that sells guided skiing and heli drops. He is losing local support by having a ski area they can't access, and so is scapegoating Vail as the reason he is cutting back the days that locals can access the mountain.

 

[Jeff N]

Off topic a bit, but what if you get placed into a group and you have trouble keeping up? Or what if you are way better than the others? How do they deal with that?

I'd really like to try it but my stamina would be a problem. My skills would be fine but they might put me in a group that is for weak skills. That would not be ok. Place sounds awesome.

They make a lot of effort to match up similar groups with similar fitness/experience levels. Some people overestimate their ability or for some other reason can't keep pace with a group, at which point guides will make an attempt to get them into a group with similar skiers.

But the reality is that most groups are going to turn in 4 laps for their $179, for many reasons of which stamina and hiking speed are only one. You will also wait to get picked back up and ferried back to the lift from the end of the run (only a few lines actually get you back to the base), You will wait for them to restart the lift, you will hike out way past stuff you would love to ski to farm whatever they want you to farm.

Want to know what the Silverton experience is? I present to you two reviews.

This guy: https://www.tetongravity.com/story/...Exhilarating-Unforgettable-Experience-6512555

This guy:

https://14erskiers.com/blog/2009/06/thoughts-on-silverton-mountain/

Reading between the lines, their on-mountain experiences seem roughly similar. Difference is how they perceived that experience. On person clearly bought into the mystique, another did not.

 

[Core2]

That $200 pass that got you a bunch of days at other ski areas was a sick deal, I miss that. I got my money's worth out of that from Taos alone the year I got it.

 

[Core2]

Also, I will be shocked if Silverton survives this latest lawsuit from the lady that got paralyzed. That is one thing Vail has going for them, lawyers and a legal budget.

 

[Jeff N]

Also, I will be shocked if Silverton survives this latest lawsuit from the lady that got paralyzed. That is one thing Vail has going for them, lawyers and a legal budget.

The Brills have some damned good lawyers themselves, that is how they managed to convince the BLM to approve the ski area in the first place (the only one on BLM land and the first new CO ski area since the 1980s), and why they actually stand to land swap their heli permits despite some serious local opposition.

But really, I think regardless of what happens with the lawsuit, I think the ski area stays because I doubt the woman wishes it gone. She is a Durango resident. However, the ski area surviving is different than the Brills owning the ski area.

Frankly, I think they have been pretty close to fed up for a while and obviously the lawsuit won't help. They haven't been shy about their willingness to sell. They invested an absolutely enormous amount of effort in getting the ski area off the ground, and I get the sense that they feel the town of Silverton owes them a debt of gratitude that the town isn't willing to reciprocate. In their eyes, they saved the town, in the Town's eyes, they run a private ski area locals can't ski at that only brings in income in drips and drabs, and to boot they want heli ski permits for the best of the rest of the BC.

For years, the Brills have been much more interested in their heli ski operation than the mountain, and more interested in Alaska heli ops than Colorado. I think they are over it.

IF the lawsuit has merit and IF their liability insurance doesn't cover it, I'd find it plausible that they would sell the area if they could reach a deal that would let them keep the heli operation. If there was a way that they could sell the ski area to get out of liability related to the lawsuit, I'd bet they'd like that idea, as long as they keep the helicopter.

Would another owner help the resort run differently? I don't know, it doesn't seem viable run as a conventional area. If it was "just" a ski area with great terrain, its remoteness means nobody would go. Silverton exists because skiers can take trips out there, return home, and tell war stories to their salivating friends about mythical Silverton. "yeah dude, it is so insane, my guide told me I could die today and then he showed me how a beacon works. Ya bro, you have to wear a beacon, probe and shovel, it was crazy. This one part, you have to hike up this super steep ridgeline hauling yourself up with a rope, where you fall, you die, brah."

If Crested Butte is struggling to exist as a going concern (and it is), Silverton minus the hype would be screwed. You let unguided skiers romp all over, you lose the hype. I keep trying to work out how Coleman could buy it and make it work minus the guided skiing, but I can't get there. But, I bet he'd try if given the chance...