Ok, I can hear the responses to the title of this thread already....."What has he been smoking???; "Doesn't he know that even FIS has given up on these skis and gone back to 30m????" ; "Why is he wasting his time to review skis that no-one can enjoy or will want to use???" And besides, any FIS athlete that was required to use the 35m ski would normally have better sources of information than ScotsSkier!....
Well, all great points! .... and without having tested these I would probably be asking similar questions. However, bear with me and read on!
First some history. When FIS introduced the requirement for a 195/35m ski for Mens' GS in 2013/14 there was much concern expressed as to how retrograde a move this was and how awful these skis would be. And when first introduced on the World Cup all these commentators were proven correct..... The quality of GS as a spectator sport suffered and, apart from Ligety, most athletes struggled to come to grips with them. However over the 4 seasons that they were mandated by FIS, there was a significant amount of investment and R&D expended on them and, by the 2016/17 season, the equipment had been greatly improved and a greater number of athletes had grasped the technique necessary to make them work in the course. From a spectator perspective this improved things marginally but all true fans of the sport welcomed the decision by FIS to adopt a 193/30m standard for Mens FIS GS for season 2017/18 onwards.
So, why am I boring you with this review when the 35m ski has now been consigned to history? Well, pretty simple really!. There are now a significant number of these skis around that are no longer of any use to the FIS athletes who previously required them and, as a result, they are available at ridiculously low prices or even being given away. (As Phil previously commented they can best be described as "Binding Holders!" ) And remember these are top quality race room construction skis we are talking about here, not some rental POS!
So, in best ScotsSkier frugality fashion I set out to find, given the bargains available on these, if they could be worth considering for those that want a hard snow, fast charging carving tool to supplement the quiver at a nominal cost.
As many of you know, I have been a big fan of the 188/30 womens FIS GS ski and have been using them successfully in Masters racing for the last 3 seasons. However even a die-hard GS ski fan like me has stayed away from the mens FIS GS ski given its reputation as being an unwieldy beast. On the very few occasions I had tried them I was less than impressed. But at the start of this season I found myself with a pair of 2015 Head 195/35 GS skis that had come from an NCAA athlete in my (notorious!) ski closet. So it seemed a shame to not at least try them to see how they worked. I mounted them up with an older Atomic 1018 Race binding on the standard Head plate to allow me to also experiment with binding position.
This ski, like pretty much all the 30 and 35m GS skis, has a small amount of early rise in the tip, to ease turn initiation. It also has a relatively soft tip flex, again pretty common in this genre. First time out on them I started with the binding set on the marked line. Wasnt sure what to expect but thought that would give me a worst case scenario. Well, turned out it wasn't actually too bad! And certainly better than I remembered from previous tests (although to be fair my abilities have improved from previous experience of them). They did require a fair bit of work to get the turn started, a bit more muscle than with the 30m ski, but certainly didn't require WC thighs like tree trunks to make them respond. And, once the turn got started, they held on like sh** on a shovel and you could lay them over in arced high speed turns with complete confidence. This is conditioned of course on adopting a current race technique with good upper body angulation (leaners/bankers need not apply) and a stance wide enough to let them work.
Not actually too daunting after all......and really fun and super stable when you let them rip!. Still, I wasn't totally comfortable on them so after a few runs I started playing about with the binding position (the beauty of the Atomic binding!) to find where they worked best. Tried a few different settings but ended up a half inch ahead of the mark as my preferred sweet spot. And after several more runs I was starting to really enjoy them! Not at all what I had expected. They do however reward much stronger tip loading than the 30m ski and you need to be "on" them much more, no time to relax here or they could bite you hard!
Next time out on them I was skiing with some of my buddies and athletes. They are all by now used to me appearing on all sorts of different gear and experimenting with different stuff so took no notice of what I was riding that day. After a few runs, working on a few things with them, someone remarked that it looked like I was really railing my turns. Hmm, not so bad then, especially watching their expressions when I told them what I was actully on!
Now of course, Head tend to be one of the softer tip flex GS skis out there (contrary to popular belief that they are somehow super stiff). In fact this is one of the reasons they work so well (don't mistake soft lateral flex for lack of torsional rigidity and edge hold) so I sort of assumed that this was just a pretty nice pair and I found myself using them on a number of days during the season and enjoying them in a range of conditions (well, if you can call what we experienced in Tahoe this season a range of conditions!) although obviouslythey worked best on a firmer surface. I did not, due to coaching commitments (and the aforementioned Tahoe conditions) have an opportunity to test them in gates. I think I could possibly make an attempt with them but it would certainly take significantly more effort (as well as being slower than my 30m skis) than this old guy would want.
Anyway in mid February I passed the Heads to one of our first year U16s who needed a legal SG ski. He is quite a bit smaller and lighter, probably ~120# so I was interested to see if he could actually make them work. I needn't have worrried. He skied them like he stole them and did a couple of SG races on them making big improvements on his start position.
Towards the end of the season I bought a bunch of Rossi slalom and GS skis to help out a buddy and coach who was recovering from a TBI and trying hard to stay afloat. Among them was a new in plastic pair of 2014 190/35 FIS GS skis. Now since there was no demand for these, and athletes were desperately trying to dump 35m skis, I thought, what the heck, may as well mount them and give them a few runs before I try to get rid of them. So, I stuck on a set of 15 MFX binders, mounted on the line and stuck them in my truck. They stayed there for several days till I decided it was time I should actually try them.
After a few runs I realized that, hey!, these are actually decent skis as well! The Heads were not just a one-off! Skiing them required very much the same approach as the Head - dynamic technique, angulation, and be prepared to really lay into the tip of the ski as you drive them. I did also experiment with mount position, moving them forward one hole on the plate (5mm) but decided I actually preferred them on the line.
Subsequently over the last several weeks of the season I ended up spending quite a bit of time on this pair, probably 7-8 (half) days even as the snow got softer. In fact I even took them out on closing day (May 29) at Mt. Rose, planning to get my final season fix of GS turns for a few runs before swapping them out for something wider. Strangely enough, despite the snow getting softer with successive runs, I was having too much fun and didn't bother to change over. Go figure!
So....after this longwinded diatribe what are the takeaways? (and what is my point!! )
The 35m GS skis, like the 30m Women skis, are all generically quite similar in performance with smaller characteristic differences across the brands. And, contrary to popular myth, these are not quite the totally unmanageable monsters that no mere mortal with FIS points above single digits should dare consider.
In fact, given the way these are being dumped on the market at fire-sale pricing they may represent an opportunity for a few people. I am seeing a lot of them being offered in the $50-$100 range (ski only ) and in fact a lot are simply being given away. These prices I should add are normally WITHOUT bindings as racers try to cut their losses and remove the bindings for reuse . And, as they all have proprietary race plates, you will need a brand specific binding unless you can find a Head or Fischer ski with a plate that can be drilled for most bindings. (You can also find them ~ $150 for skis with bindings). So, if you fall into the recommended audience, the 35m GS ski is certainly worthy of consideration as a low budget way to get a high performing groomer ski to add to your quiver.
Who are they for?
Stronger skiers with modern technique who can drive a real race ski and are able to lay it over on a high edge angle to make it work as intended. Preferably skiing on a mountain that has enough open space to really enjoy it. Should also be comfortable at speed. They also makes a great budget option for a U16 looking for an affordable, USSA legal, Super G ski. (and this can make far more sense than spending serious $$$ on a >30m U16 SG ski that will see limited use!)
Who are they NOT for?
If you have to ask..... and do not honestly see yourself in the recommendation above.....then, regardless of what a deal they can be, save your $ !
Well, all great points! .... and without having tested these I would probably be asking similar questions. However, bear with me and read on!
First some history. When FIS introduced the requirement for a 195/35m ski for Mens' GS in 2013/14 there was much concern expressed as to how retrograde a move this was and how awful these skis would be. And when first introduced on the World Cup all these commentators were proven correct..... The quality of GS as a spectator sport suffered and, apart from Ligety, most athletes struggled to come to grips with them. However over the 4 seasons that they were mandated by FIS, there was a significant amount of investment and R&D expended on them and, by the 2016/17 season, the equipment had been greatly improved and a greater number of athletes had grasped the technique necessary to make them work in the course. From a spectator perspective this improved things marginally but all true fans of the sport welcomed the decision by FIS to adopt a 193/30m standard for Mens FIS GS for season 2017/18 onwards.
So, why am I boring you with this review when the 35m ski has now been consigned to history? Well, pretty simple really!. There are now a significant number of these skis around that are no longer of any use to the FIS athletes who previously required them and, as a result, they are available at ridiculously low prices or even being given away. (As Phil previously commented they can best be described as "Binding Holders!" ) And remember these are top quality race room construction skis we are talking about here, not some rental POS!
So, in best ScotsSkier frugality fashion I set out to find, given the bargains available on these, if they could be worth considering for those that want a hard snow, fast charging carving tool to supplement the quiver at a nominal cost.
As many of you know, I have been a big fan of the 188/30 womens FIS GS ski and have been using them successfully in Masters racing for the last 3 seasons. However even a die-hard GS ski fan like me has stayed away from the mens FIS GS ski given its reputation as being an unwieldy beast. On the very few occasions I had tried them I was less than impressed. But at the start of this season I found myself with a pair of 2015 Head 195/35 GS skis that had come from an NCAA athlete in my (notorious!) ski closet. So it seemed a shame to not at least try them to see how they worked. I mounted them up with an older Atomic 1018 Race binding on the standard Head plate to allow me to also experiment with binding position.
This ski, like pretty much all the 30 and 35m GS skis, has a small amount of early rise in the tip, to ease turn initiation. It also has a relatively soft tip flex, again pretty common in this genre. First time out on them I started with the binding set on the marked line. Wasnt sure what to expect but thought that would give me a worst case scenario. Well, turned out it wasn't actually too bad! And certainly better than I remembered from previous tests (although to be fair my abilities have improved from previous experience of them). They did require a fair bit of work to get the turn started, a bit more muscle than with the 30m ski, but certainly didn't require WC thighs like tree trunks to make them respond. And, once the turn got started, they held on like sh** on a shovel and you could lay them over in arced high speed turns with complete confidence. This is conditioned of course on adopting a current race technique with good upper body angulation (leaners/bankers need not apply) and a stance wide enough to let them work.
Not actually too daunting after all......and really fun and super stable when you let them rip!. Still, I wasn't totally comfortable on them so after a few runs I started playing about with the binding position (the beauty of the Atomic binding!) to find where they worked best. Tried a few different settings but ended up a half inch ahead of the mark as my preferred sweet spot. And after several more runs I was starting to really enjoy them! Not at all what I had expected. They do however reward much stronger tip loading than the 30m ski and you need to be "on" them much more, no time to relax here or they could bite you hard!
Next time out on them I was skiing with some of my buddies and athletes. They are all by now used to me appearing on all sorts of different gear and experimenting with different stuff so took no notice of what I was riding that day. After a few runs, working on a few things with them, someone remarked that it looked like I was really railing my turns. Hmm, not so bad then, especially watching their expressions when I told them what I was actully on!
Now of course, Head tend to be one of the softer tip flex GS skis out there (contrary to popular belief that they are somehow super stiff). In fact this is one of the reasons they work so well (don't mistake soft lateral flex for lack of torsional rigidity and edge hold) so I sort of assumed that this was just a pretty nice pair and I found myself using them on a number of days during the season and enjoying them in a range of conditions (well, if you can call what we experienced in Tahoe this season a range of conditions!) although obviouslythey worked best on a firmer surface. I did not, due to coaching commitments (and the aforementioned Tahoe conditions) have an opportunity to test them in gates. I think I could possibly make an attempt with them but it would certainly take significantly more effort (as well as being slower than my 30m skis) than this old guy would want.
Anyway in mid February I passed the Heads to one of our first year U16s who needed a legal SG ski. He is quite a bit smaller and lighter, probably ~120# so I was interested to see if he could actually make them work. I needn't have worrried. He skied them like he stole them and did a couple of SG races on them making big improvements on his start position.
Towards the end of the season I bought a bunch of Rossi slalom and GS skis to help out a buddy and coach who was recovering from a TBI and trying hard to stay afloat. Among them was a new in plastic pair of 2014 190/35 FIS GS skis. Now since there was no demand for these, and athletes were desperately trying to dump 35m skis, I thought, what the heck, may as well mount them and give them a few runs before I try to get rid of them. So, I stuck on a set of 15 MFX binders, mounted on the line and stuck them in my truck. They stayed there for several days till I decided it was time I should actually try them.
After a few runs I realized that, hey!, these are actually decent skis as well! The Heads were not just a one-off! Skiing them required very much the same approach as the Head - dynamic technique, angulation, and be prepared to really lay into the tip of the ski as you drive them. I did also experiment with mount position, moving them forward one hole on the plate (5mm) but decided I actually preferred them on the line.
Subsequently over the last several weeks of the season I ended up spending quite a bit of time on this pair, probably 7-8 (half) days even as the snow got softer. In fact I even took them out on closing day (May 29) at Mt. Rose, planning to get my final season fix of GS turns for a few runs before swapping them out for something wider. Strangely enough, despite the snow getting softer with successive runs, I was having too much fun and didn't bother to change over. Go figure!
So....after this longwinded diatribe what are the takeaways? (and what is my point!!
)The 35m GS skis, like the 30m Women skis, are all generically quite similar in performance with smaller characteristic differences across the brands. And, contrary to popular myth, these are not quite the totally unmanageable monsters that no mere mortal with FIS points above single digits should dare consider.
In fact, given the way these are being dumped on the market at fire-sale pricing they may represent an opportunity for a few people. I am seeing a lot of them being offered in the $50-$100 range (ski only ) and in fact a lot are simply being given away. These prices I should add are normally WITHOUT bindings as racers try to cut their losses and remove the bindings for reuse . And, as they all have proprietary race plates, you will need a brand specific binding unless you can find a Head or Fischer ski with a plate that can be drilled for most bindings. (You can also find them ~ $150 for skis with bindings). So, if you fall into the recommended audience, the 35m GS ski is certainly worthy of consideration as a low budget way to get a high performing groomer ski to add to your quiver.
Who are they for?
Stronger skiers with modern technique who can drive a real race ski and are able to lay it over on a high edge angle to make it work as intended. Preferably skiing on a mountain that has enough open space to really enjoy it. Should also be comfortable at speed. They also makes a great budget option for a U16 looking for an affordable, USSA legal, Super G ski. (and this can make far more sense than spending serious $$$ on a >30m U16 SG ski that will see limited use!)
Who are they NOT for?
If you have to ask..... and do not honestly see yourself in the recommendation above.....then, regardless of what a deal they can be, save your $ !
