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Playful Skis for an Oompa-loompa?

DanoT

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I'm thinking about a new parka and pants in bright orange...

BRIGHT orange is the perfect colour for a built-in, passive, snowboarder/newschooler defense system.
 

Philpug

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oompa-loompa-34.jpg
 

Started at 53

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Sounds like the Renoun Z series is pretty awesome. Question, what was the rocker on the tail offer? It seems to have more than other skis.
 

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Sounds like the Renoun Z series is pretty awesome. Question, what was the rocker on the tail offer? It seems to have more than other skis.
The Z90 has very little rocker in the tail.
 
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Marty McSly

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I am a Latigo fan too, I am not sure it is what you are asking for though. Would you consider a cousin of a Blizzard? The new Nordica Navigator 85 or 90.
There are still some Latigos available near me. Since my last post I read through the 4 page Epicski thread on the Latigo, the consensus seems to be that they are well suited to hard snow and bumps. Lively yet forgiving. Pretty much what I'm looking for, given that I'd expect to make the odd mistake while developing skills in bumps.
 

Tricia

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There are still some Latigos available near me. Since my last post I read through the 4 page Epicski thread on the Latigo, the consensus seems to be that they are well suited to hard snow and bumps. Lively yet forgiving. Pretty much what I'm looking for, given that I'd expect to make the odd mistake while developing skills in bumps.
I really love the Latigos and am disappointed that they won't be made next year.
Keep in mind that they are significantly narrower than what you're currently skiing, so they will be great for a groomer and bump ski but won't be all that great when you're getting into deeper snow. But then, that's why we buy quivers, right??
 
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Marty McSly

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I really love the Latigos and am disappointed that they won't be made next year.
Keep in mind that they are significantly narrower than what you're currently skiing, so they will be great for a groomer and bump ski but won't be all that great when you're getting into deeper snow. But then, that's why we buy quivers, right??
Exactly. And you very rarely get deep snow where I usually ski.
 

Tony S

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Exactly. And you very rarely get deep snow where I usually ski.

FWIW I've skied both the Latigo and the Invictus 89ti, @ 170 and 171, respectively. Not on the same day, unfortunately. Pretty different skis.

Maybe it was the conditions or my aggressiveness level in the moment, but I was really surprised at how gentle the Armada was, even with the metal, yadda yadda. It was a rare instance where even I was looking for a little more beef. This from an Armada owner (TST). But playful, yes. For sure.

The Latigo had a bit more spine and a lot more carve. It, too, is playful, but more like a Lab and less like a Sheltie.

Both good skis. If you go with the Invictus, go long.
 
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Marty McSly

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The Latigo had a bit more spine and a lot more carve. It, too, is playful, but more like a Lab and less like a Sheltie.
Hmmm... my equal second favourite dog breeds behind German Shepherd :wag:. Hardly a deadlock breaker :D
 
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Marty McSly

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FWIW I've skied both the Latigo and the Invictus 89ti, @ 170 and 171, respectively. Not on the same day, unfortunately. Pretty different skis.

Maybe it was the conditions or my aggressiveness level in the moment, but I was really surprised at how gentle the Armada was, even with the metal, yadda yadda. It was a rare instance where even I was looking for a little more beef. This from an Armada owner (TST). But playful, yes. For sure.

The Latigo had a bit more spine and a lot more carve. It, too, is playful, but more like a Lab and less like a Sheltie.

Both good skis. If you go with the Invictus, go long.
Some interesting thoughts there Tony. IIRC you are shorter and a fair bit lighter than me? But no doubt a much more accomplished skier. The hype I've read on some other sites would suggest that the Invictus are big-mountain-slaying, hard-charging beasts. Carve ability is not a huge factor given the layout of my home mountain. I can get to and from appropriate bump runs via the network of green runs that get people to all but the most interesting terrain.

I started this thread mainly for the discussion and ideas, without any real thought of adding to my quiver. My initial thoughts were that the Monsters I have would be pretty close once I've developed some bump technique. I've found them to be pretty good mirrors. When I'm confident and on a slope within my comfort zone, they ski confidently and as speed increases (as long as I don't lose confidence at speed) they seem to disappear. When I'm nervous or uncertain, however, the feedback from the Monsters is equally nervous and uncertain. So, they are good for me when I've developed technique to fit the situation, but maybe not so much a learning ski.

Of course when discussions about skis start, the temptation to look at prices becomes overwhelming...

I'm looking at skis to use for maybe (hopefully) 1 or 2 seasons to work on confidence and skills in bumps, and then move back to the Monsters as a daily driver, do-it-all (well 90% anyway) proposition. Of course by then I'll probably want the new Monster in a longer length, or a Renoun Z90, or...

So as good as the Nordica Navigators sound, I'm looking for a close-out deal on old stock skis that I can use for a couple of years then sell (yeah, right) without taking a huge bath. I can get the Invictus 89Ti in 179, or the Latigo in 177, locally, for the equivalent of about US$420 flat. I think I'll enquire about them in that order.

Thanks to all for your thoughts and discussion.
 

Philpug

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Some interesting thoughts there Tony. IIRC you are shorter and a fair bit lighter than me? But no doubt a much more accomplished skier. The hype I've read on some other sites would suggest that the Invictus are big-mountain-slaying, hard-charging beasts. Carve ability is not a huge factor given the layout of my home mountain. I can get to and from appropriate bump runs via the network of green runs that get people to all but the most interesting terrain.
Invictus hard charging beasts? Harldy. @SkiNurse and @Tricia both love the Victas, the women version (which have the same construction) and they are far from hard chargers. The Invictus 89Ti is a great ski that does not require a ton of work to ski.
 
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Marty McSly

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So a pair of Invictus 89Ti arrived today, complete with Marker demo bindings (so I can share with my son who has a 25mm bigger BSL).

First impression... crikey they're light! They feel like ballet pumps compared to some skis I've ridden. I expect they'll be a lot different to what I'm used to.

So if you hear news reports of sightings of an oompa-loompa in a tutu dancing down an Australian ski slope come this August...
 
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Marty McSly

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I really love the Latigos and am disappointed that they won't be made next year.
Keep in mind that they are significantly narrower than what you're currently skiing, so they will be great for a groomer and bump ski but won't be all that great when you're getting into deeper snow. But then, that's why we buy quivers, right??

The Latigo had a bit more spine and a lot more carve. It, too, is playful, but more like a Lab and less like a Sheltie.

I skied a pair of 177cm Latigos back to back with 170cm Head Rallys and 177cm Völkl RTM81 over 5 days on the opening weekend WROD at Perisher. Conditions were mostly wet and heavy to mushy and slushy, although the Monday morning brought a decent groomer first up thanks to an overnight cold snap.

I found playfulness in some aspects of the Rallys' and RTMs' performance. As noted elsewhere, the Rallys had me grinning at their easy-turning abilities on the firm snow that one morning. No one-trick ponies, I tried big-radius turns and drifting on them, also on the firm snow and really enjoyed them. But only on the firm snow, not so much in mush and slush.

The RTMs also felt alive and playful in their element - big radius turns down the fall line, skiing like the random piles of slush weren't there. But they went all passive-aggressive on me at less than 10 tenths.

As for the Latigos...

I thought at first that I'd made a mistake not bringing my Monster 88's, given the soft conditions. Previous experience tells me that Monsters slay spring-like slush, but I only brought narrow-ish skis. I'd seen a thread somewhere on wider skis being harder on knees than narrower ones, and had noticed since first buying my own skis (87mm) that my knees were stiff after skiing. The thread was inconclusive and I wanted to try narrower options for myself.

First run on the Latigos and they felt instantly familiar and welcoming. Perhaps not surprising as I'd had a few seasons on a pair of 2012 Blizzard Magnum 8.7ti, but those Magnums are pre-flipcore and shaped quite differently to the Latigos.

Whatever the reason, when I clicked in, they just clicked. Short turns, check. Big radius turns, check. Drift semi-sideways over slushy piles, check. Blast through slushy piles, check. Leave me confused about the nature of playfulness, check.

What???

Here's the dilemma. Whatever I did, the Latigos were happy to play along. My skiing was inconsistent for about the first 3 days as I hadn't been on skis for 15 months. No matter if I was in the back seat, or tending to follow my skis across the slope, or any number of other technical mistakes I noticed, the Latigos didn't punish me. On the other hand, when I got all my planets aligned, found the Go Button and had a good run, they didn't seem to come alive in the same way that the Rallys or RTMs did. I'd describe the Latigos as confidence inspiring, dependable, reassuring, calm, comforting...

... like a Lab that had graduated from Guide Dog training. If they could talk, they'd be saying "Whatever you do is OK with me, I'll save you if you get into trouble", whereas the RTMs would be saying "Faster, master!"

They certainly seem to have a massive sweet spot. Although I'll qualify that by saying that I haven't had the chance to try them on hard snow. That will have to wait until my next trip in early September, when there is usually a solid daily thaw-freeze cycle. If they're equally at home in hard snow, they could easily become my reference ski.
 

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Well, if you want a Latigo, you better move fast, they are out of the Blizzard line and I don't see that they will be returning. An upcoming ski that is 72% Latigo, 24% iRally and 4% English Bulldog (YEs, we actually had it's DNA checked) is the upcoming Liberty VMT 76. The ski shocked all of our testers on how much fun it it.

@Doug Briggs: Liberty showed me that my conception of them as a freeride company was all wrong. The VMT 76 is an outstanding ski. Easy to ski, ready to go, it handles the piste like a thoroughbred. I would consider this ski for my quiver if I had a vacancy.
  • Who is it for? Skiers looking for performance and forgiveness in a ski.
  • Who is it not for? Conformists.
  • Insider tip: Remember, you heard it hear first: Liberty VMTs are damn good.
@Drahtguy Kevin: "Smooth and eager to please" describes this ski to a T. Getting in and out of turns is quick and energetic. A secure feel underfoot made me want to go faster and faster on the groomed and off. Whatever I threw at this ski was devoured with ease and comfort. One of the surprises of the testing season for me.
  • Who is it for? People looking for a more on-piste-oriented ski who like to dip their toes off piste as well.
  • Who is it not for? Skiers unwilling to try an “off brand.”
  • Insider tip: You’ll be hearing more about Liberty in the future.
 

Cheizz

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I think the Invictus is more smooth than that it is anything else (I only skied the 99 TI though, but I think narrower models have similar constructions).

I find the Bizzard Brahma CA playful and very stable. I'm only 6' and 190 lbs, but I think they're great. In the ~80 mm range, I really like the K2 iKonic 80 TI in the playful, yet stable category. There is metal, obviously, but it is more playful than other ski's in that range.
 

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