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Make me a demo list.

Ron

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I'm really in the same boat as you. It really comes down to getting your butt on a bunch of bikes, just like skis and see what feels best. BTW- the 5.5 is a bike you just need to ride around the "parking lot" on to feel how this gem pedals. Im not buying it but damn, if I had younger legs and more disregard for my body, I'd be on it.

Did you consider the Fuel EX 9.8? that's a ton of bike for about 5K.
 

Tom K.

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trek is making some fantastic bikes! The Fuel EX, Slash and Remedy are all bad-ass bikes. :thumb:

And I finally got to sling a leg over a ProCaliber this weekend (briefly).

Scalded cat! It may be time to replace my 10 or 11-year old hardtail.
 

AmyPJ

Skiing the powder
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This looks fun: https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/...ce-shop-limited/p/1194600-2017/?colorCode=red

I haven't really paid attention to Trek. It's not quite Specialized, but it does sorta feel Vail-esque.
Yes, but they employ a whole gaggle of people in Wisconsin and around the world, and put a WHOLE lot of money into R & D. :) Still family owned. Their CEO also has a pretty responsible view of business and "paying their fair share" so to speak. You can google the guy and find out lots of stuff. I don't want to derail this to a political "chat". Anyway, I did some research on the company which made me feel pretty good about buying another of their bikes.
 

Monique

bounceswoosh
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As I was driving home from riding some DH yesterday, I was thinking about what I want in a bike. For me, I want to ride without ever touching foot down. I want to clean everything and always will go for the technical line when I have the choice. So I guess unflappable traction is #1. It needs to be efficient enough that I am able to provide the power when it is needed and am not dragging my tongue on the front tire at the wrong moment. I'd like to be able to ride up the hill more than once! I want it to be as fun as my DH bike on the downs, and able to get loose when I want it to. I want to be able to break traction and slide my bike, I don't want it so glued down that when I exceed traction, all I can do is crash. I've been riding an Intense Carbine which is somewhere around 160mm travel front and rear, maybe 150 rear, 160 front. I have a Cane Creek DBA and a BOS Deville so that I can adjust everything. It's weird deciding what is the "right" amount of travel. Should a 29er really have less travel than it's 650B cousin? Why? 160 sounds like soon much on a 29er, but totally normal for a 650B.

I'm trying the Hightower today. 2.8" Minions, XTR Di2, etc., but I'm skeptical of it. We will see.

I mean, who doesn't want all that in a bike?
 

Tom K.

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Yes, but they employ a whole gaggle of people in Wisconsin and around the world, and put a WHOLE lot of money into R & D. :) Still family owned. Their CEO also has a pretty responsible view of business and "paying their fair share" so to speak. You can google the guy and find out lots of stuff. I don't want to derail this to a political "chat". Anyway, I did some research on the company which made me feel pretty good about buying another of their bikes.

Agreed. No politics from me (ever), but John Burke is just a good, solid, grounded Midwesterner, and really looks out for his dealers.

Of course he's a competitive businessman, but he seems to wear multiple hats nicely.

On the downside, he's probably a Wisconsin Badgers fan. As a former Minnesota Gopher, there are some things that I can't quite forgive! ;)
 
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Erik Timmerman

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They did treat Greg Lemond horribly. So there's that.

Anyway, I rode the Hightower on my out the back door trail today. It has a solid punchy climb and a fast flow downhill. I felt worse on both on this bike. There were a few moments where it was cool to steamroller things, but the precision is not there, and in the places where the tires were helping me with tech, my inability to power the thing made it all a wash. I think all in all, I had about twice as many dabs as I would have on my skinny tired 26er relic.

I went and grabbed a size Large Bronson, and rode it tonight on almost the same loop as last night. The group wasn't super fast, but I was climbing in the front of the group and pulling on the brakes on the downs to keep off the guy in front of me. Faster everywhere. This was the base build, not blingy at all. It may have let me ride the tech better than my old bike, but hard to be sure. There is one steep rooty uphill 90 degree turn that is a make or break spot for me which felt pretty easy on this bike. I did possibly have to ratchet a few times more than normal, but not really sure about that. I might try an XL since that seems to be the thing to do these days.

I talked to the owner of the shop I am most likely to buy from. He stocks SC, is open as a dealer with Evil and Ibis. I will demo those. He just put together a Mojo4 the other day and was showing me pictures of all the shoddy work on it. It did look pretty ugly. But if it rides so great I have to have one, it is an option. I will demo Ibis, and maybe Pivot. Will look at Yeti, but not sure where I could get one. If it is magical I will find a way. Definitely going to be thorough with the Evil demo tent.

If I had to, I could buy the Bronson and be happy with it.
 

Monique

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If I had to, I could buy the Bronson and be happy with it.

This is kind of my sticking point. I do want a bike with some modern stuff - a 1x drivetrain, through axles rather than whatever they call the gap at the bottom on the old forks. I know that I want a slacker geometry and more travel than my current XC bike.

But the question is, how much is it worth to me to get that? I don't want to "have to" buy something that costs thousands of dollars. I'd better be EXCITED about it!

I liked the Ibis Mojo 3 pretty well, but I'm not sure I felt EXCITED about it. Maybe I should have. Maybe I have unrealistic expectations of how much a bike can change my basic ability level (and especially my tortoise factor). But I remember years ago, I picked up two bikes to demo at the same time - the Truth and whatever the comparable Yeti was. I immediately loved the Truth and "meh"d the Yeti. (My buddy demoing with me had the opposite reaction, and bought the Yeti). I don't know why I am not EXCITED about a bike that rolled over so many obstacles that I'd normally bounce off of.

Perhaps my Truth is just that good after all these years, even though it's not optimal for the riding I do. I love the Dare, too, even though it's stupid overkill for what I do, and a pain to lug around. They have a new Rogue 40 ... the standover height is the same as the Mojo 3, ie, nice and low ... the main bummer is that there's no local dealer, although there's a place that does demos a couple of hours away. But it seems crazy that I could only love a brand that's commonly known as "Smellsworth." (LOL - they offer the XX1 Eagle but not the "mere" XO1 Eagle!)

Sorry - bleeding over from my own demo thread.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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If I was the kind of rider who wanted to just casually pedal up and then smoke a bowl before descending, maybe this would be my kind of bike.

Brilliant
 

Tony S

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I rode a Trek Fuel plus for maybe twenty minutes last summer. It was fun, but not something to base a relationship on. Too slow on the uptake. Completely idiot proof, though. And I'm definitely an idiot on occasion.

The Pivot 429 Trail plus I tried, because they didn't have a small frame set up with 29s, rode like it had two suspensions with a big hiatus between them. First you squish the tire, then you start using the fork and shock. I didn't like it.
 
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Erik Timmerman

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Riding the plus bike to me, felt like I was riding bike up a hill while simultaneously trying to pump up a small inflatable raft. If I pedaled harder I didn't go faster, just pumped up the raft more.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Riding the plus bike to me, felt like I was riding bike up a hill while simultaneously trying to pump up a small inflatable raft. If I pedaled harder I didn't go faster, just pumped up the raft more.

You are so on a roll here, humor-wise. I just gotta make sure I don't snort beer out my nose next time this comes up at post-ride.
 

Tony S

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But it seems crazy that I could only love a brand that's commonly known as "Smellsworth."

I was a Turner fanboy for a long time. No apologies. Those guys' favorite sport was making fun of Tony Ellsworth. He's long gone, right?
 

Monique

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I was a Turner fanboy for a long time. No apologies. Those guys' favorite sport was making fun of Tony Ellsworth. He's long gone, right?

LBS guy commented today that they've had three owners in the last 1.5 years. I haven't done my own research to verify, though.
 

Tom K.

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I was a Turner fanboy for a long time. No apologies. Those guys' favorite sport was making fun of Tony Ellsworth. He's long gone, right?

Same same! I actually helped develop the Czar. Couldn't get DT to stretch the top tube out long enough, though!

I gotta say, I raced and rode the dickens out of that thing for two seasons, then sold it to a friend who has continued riding it for two and a half more seasons, and it's still going strong.
 
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Erik Timmerman

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Well, Mini-Me and I got to NEMBA this morning and got out demo on. First of all, OMG! There are so MANY people there. The parking lot was unbelievable. The trails were annoyingly crowded. I'd slow down to be courteous to the people in front of me only to hear "on your left" every time and have people passing me. Then we'd all be stopped because we are two wide and there is oncoming traffic. WTF guys? It's cool that it was a family event, but little kids on Strider bikes a mile from the expo area were a bit annoying. People would be backed up 30 deep behind them. Anyway.... some bikes were demoed.

We went first to Evil. I really wanted to start the day on the Wreckoning, a long travel 29er... but they were all out. In fact, all of the larges were out. We started setting up Mini-Me on a Calling (130mm 650B) and luckily by the time it was ready, a large Insurgent had come in. Not my first choice, but on the list. 151mm travel 650B. The bike had definitely seen some use, and the previous rider said the shifting was out f whack, but I took it. The rep did his best with the barrel adjusters, and set up the shocks and off we went. We followed the crowd out to the trails and after letting a gap build in front of us went down Tap and Die. The bike is fun, it's a wheelie and manual machine. Maybe a little tail happy, or maybe that was last nights rain. The 2.3" WTB Vigilantes were pretty worn to, not a sharp knob anywhere. There are roots, but not rocks. Th trail isn't quite flow, but neither is it tech or gnar. I wish it had some rocks. The rear of the bike felt great, but I still feel that the Pike's mid-stroke leaves something on the table. It just makes the bike feel pitchy instead of stable. We rode across the sandy flats of West Branch and then up Burrington Bench which is a pretty long climb with a slightly more than moderate grade and a series of switchbacks. Ron, I'd think you'd like how this motors around switchbacks. Climbing was certainly better than average, but as Mini-Me said, you wish you had some timing and a control bike instead of just guessing about feel. As for the Calling, she didn't love it. It made her hands hurt, and she felt that the rear shock was too firm. As for climbing, she thought the bike took too much effort climbing, felt like she was getting dropped the whole time. I think that in fact, the shock was under-sprung for her and her hands were hurting because it kept bottoming and the shock was moving too much. This is where I think shock tuning can get hard for a smaller rider. Sag was correct, but it seems that something else needed to be changed. Could be shock volume, could be compression was too soft, or maybe rebound was too hard "packing". At any rate, she did not dig it.

When we returned a swarm of bikes had returned and we both trapped Wreckonings 161mm travel 29ers. I think these also had 2.3" Vigilantes which looked fresher. The bikes in general were fresher. After setting up, we pedaled away. As we rode across the flat to the top of Tap and Die I was mostly thinking about how very high the front end of the bike was, the bars were way up there even though there were hardly any spacers under the stem. On closer inspection, there were two 2.5mm spacers, not much room to play with. I also noticed that at lower speeds, the bike switched over from "carve mode" to "steer" mode. Sorta reminded me of the Hightower in that regard. OK, so the bars were huge and wide and really high off the ground, and if the bike wasn't moving fast enough, it felt steer. I wasn't sure how much I'd like it on Tap and Die. As soon as I laid it into the first turn, I knew it was going to rip the downs, and rip it did. Mini-me's take on the downhill was "YES!". Again, I wish we'd had rougher terrain, but we didn't so you just sort of have to guess. I guess that it would excel on rocky terrain. Climbing up Burrington Bench, I'd say it was great. I used the climb switch for the second half ( never touched it on The Insurgent) and that did tighten it up and make the pedals feel more responsive. Once again, you wonder how fast you are really going, but I was passing people and not being passed. Ron, it was not as good as the Insurgent on climbing switchbacks. This is where I was most concerned about the bike being able to perform, and it did. Mini-me agreed although she felt that her 26" Intense Tracer2 climbs better.

After dropping these bikes off,we decided to skip the Following and move on to other brands. We went to Yeti and after standing there for about a half hour, we gave up and figured we'd come back later. They had tons of bikes, but not many people to set them up and a huge line. We went to Santa Cruz, and they had about three bikes. YT was pretty thin and I have already ridden those. Intense was not present though they were on the list of vendors. The big Red S was not present. Pivot had no 5.5s or 29er Switchblades and I didn't want to roll a fatty. Checked on Yeti again, line was huge.

Mini-Me wanted to ride a Trek because Rachel Atherton. Se we went over and tried. They had Fuel EXs, but had no Remedys or Slashes. So we both rode the Fuel. Her first question was "what is this thing next to the dropper". That is called a front shifter.... As we rolled away, I was thinking about how well the XR3 tires rolled or at least they sounded like it. The bike is so well built, but also very wide at least in part because of the boost spacing. The tire clearance would be good for some large tires, but the rocker was rubbing both of my calves unless I purposely rode bow-legged. From behind I hear Mini-Me say "this bike seems so practical". Practical? Hmm, is that praise or something else? I agree though, the bike is the bike that you should have. It was competent but not exciting on the downhill. The frame is amazingly well thought out, a grown-up bike, engineered. Mini-me thought it was kind of a lame climber. I didn't think it climbed as well as the Wreckoning, but I did go ahead and push it up the hill. I let that little man inside me shovel coal into the boiler as fast as he could and powered it up the hill. Yeah, it practical, but I didn't think there was much spark. It was like the K2 ski that you'd recommend to someone else, but wouldn't be too excited to ski yourself. We tried for Yeti again and then decided it was lunchtime. Went to the East Burke market for a sandwich and then bailed.

I don't know how many people are at NMBAfest right now, but it felt like it could have been as many as 10,000 to me. Maybe I'm way off, I don't know, but the demo guys could go bigger next year.

I think on Monday I am going to order the Insurgent. As much as I liked the Wreckoning, I had some question marks I could not answer. It was great downhill, and performed very well on a grind of a climb, but I wonder how it would be on a steeper trail in a smaller gear. When I am on the limit will it handle well enough to let me make it over the tech spots that I need to get over or will the steering wander? How would it ride with the spacers out of the headset? Maybe even with flat bars?

Mini-me loved the Wreckoning, but says she'd still rather be on her Intense. Thank God.

As of right now, my thinking is large Insurgent, BOS Deville fork, Mavic XA Carbon wheel set (26mm ID!) and mostly XTR, maybe some Hope brakes.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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^^^
Yeah, ya kind of have to go in with a plan, and be there for the opening bell at your first choice tent. I lucked out last year because i had two days and a same-size / same-pedals partner to swap with halfway through each loop. We didn't stick strictly to the approved route, btw. And totally agree about the Striders.

Your comments about rocks are well made - ALL the bikes feel better there than at home because the dirt is just a lot friendlier.
 
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Erik Timmerman

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I wanted to take it over to the mountain for some rocks on Moose Alley, but kind a not Kosher to keep the bikes that long.
 

Tony S

I have a confusion to make ...
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Oh, and you guys nailed EXACTLY how I felt about the Fuel EX I tried. Pleasant. Nice. Unexceptionable. Just couldn't get excited about it.
 

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