MA: two skiers carving (video)

[TDK]

Time for some MA. Have a go good folks. Give it your best shot. In this video I'm being followed by a fellow masters ski racer also on a pair of 157 SL skis. The ide was to make a bit of a DemoTeam run with perfectly matching carved turns. Did we manage to do that? If not, what should have been done differently? If you want to comment on general ski technique do so. Thanks in advance.


TDK

 

[Josh Matta]

those are ok GS turns, why ski on SL skis i you just making med intensity M turns?

DO you have any video of running SL gates?

 

[TDK]

Thank's Josh for jumping in. The reason we skied medium radius turns was to keep the tempo slow and for the skier behind easy to follow. Also, medium radius turns to practice on the fundamentals.

 

[Mendieta]

Nice turns, @TDK ! I wish I could do that

I am not an MA expert or anything, but it seems to me that you (at the front) are taking more aggressive turns with higher edge angle and more energetic rebound, so your buddy couldn't quite shadow you. So at some point he started keeping with your tempo rather than your speed. Meaning, he would start the turn at the same time as you, even if he wasn't so far out.

As a layman observer, matching the turn timing with different shapes seems more visually apealing than the opposite. Matching both seems extremely difficult.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[mdf]

I have extremely limited experience with synchronized skiing. -- one run as a photo op when @Uncle Louie was passing the Gathermeister torch (figuratively, but literally would be something to see!).

His advice was front skier goes 3/4 normal speed and put the best skier in back.

I expect that paying attention to the leader and to yourself is very difficult.

 

[Jamt]

Nice turns in general, but personally I don't like the park-and-ride look you get when making such long turns on SL skis. The sync does not become easier because you make such turns, quite the opposite because there is no rhythm to go on for the skier behind. Try shorter turns and with a pole plant to help the skier behind

 

[JESinstr]

As JF Says: "Edging happens as a RESULT of the inside leg getting shorter" In regards to medium and long radius turns, this needs to become an "active/intentional" process as the turns deepens.

TDK is showing the mechanics and alignment to make this happen. Skier #2 is not and I submit that part of the reason is blocking action of his upper body counter inhibiting the alignment for strong and progressive edge building.

This is just the first thing that jumped out at me but I am sure others will see something else.

Great video for comparison TDK! Thanks.

 

[T-Square]

TDK,

Good skiing. Snow is coming off from near the tips of the skis. Smooth rounded turns. Appropriate upper lower body separation. Good speed management.

The big thing that pops out at me is that the second skier has a bit of divergence in his skis during the turns. During the shaping section of the turn the tips are farther apart than the tails. This results in a 'glitch' at transition to the next turn. There is a slight forward movement before he can get on the new outside ski. Compare this to the front skier at transition. The front skier smoothly moves from old outside ski to the new outside ski. All I would suggest to the rear skier is to keep the inside ski from 'sliding' forward. Feel more pressure against the tongue of the inside boot. (Keep/pull your inside foot back.)

For a racer that divergence is only a brake preventing skiing the chosen line as fast as possible. Parallel is fast, anything else is slow.

Synchro skiing is great. The follower is focused on the leader and that lets them get out of their conscious mind and just ski. The leader is forced to ski rhythmically and think about what is happening. Good all around for everyone.

 

[Tony S]

For version two, maybe do two runs, swapping places between. As others have mentioned, each position is easier in some ways and harder in others.

 

[Swede]

And you have to talk to your friend about his salmiak-suit.

 

[KevinF]

I have extremely limited experience with synchronized skiing. -- one run as a photo op when @Uncle Louie

I seem to remember a syncho-skiing run with you at Saddleback... Maybe not planned, but it worked out that way. Somewhere there was photo evidence.

 

[KingGrump]

Oh, right, so that was syncho skiing.
Looked more like stalking for a while there.

 

[skibob]

I have extremely limited experience with synchronized skiing. -- one run as a photo op when @Uncle Louie was passing the Gathermeister torch (figuratively, but literally would be something to see!).

His advice was front skier goes 3/4 normal speed and put the best skier in back.

I expect that paying attention to the leader and to yourself is very difficult.

I do it with my son sometimes. I usually can't manage to match his speed and rhythm for more than about 4 turns.

 

[Mendieta]

I do it with my son sometimes. I usually can't manage to match his speed and rhythm for more than about 4 turns.

Ah, the kids. I sometimes do an anti-synch with them, so we leave tracks with the shape of an eight. Simply because I am trying to film them with the gopro, and it's a lot nice than following them.

And yes, following their pace is really hard for me, I turn faster and bigger arcs. The youngest is the toughest, with her lovely short radius Jr skis.

I also try to follow good skiers, not when they are pushing their limits, which I can't, but rather when they are drilling. I just try to follow their tracks. It was suggested to me by more than a good instructor. It's basically free instruction. Heck, sometimes I follow instructors. Not too closely, of course

 

[mdf]

I seem to remember a syncho-skiing run with you at Saddleback... Maybe not planned, but it worked out that way. Somewhere there was photo evidence.

Oooh, I forgot that one. Yeah, I was purposely mirroring your skiing. I did pretty well, although the consensus in the thread was that you had better form. And that was in the bumps!

 

[markojp]

Quick two cents... Platform angle... You have it, your tail gunner doesn't. Why? He's back and in because he's skiing from his hips to this skis. Yup. Dumping. He isn't able to build angles and manage forces progressively like you are doing. Take him out and work on his long and short leg, then some white pass turns. He's not getting over his outside foot in transistion consistently and needs a recentering 'up'. Before going back to syncing, have him follow a turn behind trying to precisely stay in your tracks. You should change your radius in this process to keep him honest. If he's out of balance, he won't succeed. Until then, you'll need to ski in back. About the pole plant comment, I don't get it. I see them just fine. Very nice skiing TDK. You set a task (medium/long radius rythmic turns) and did it well. What it subjectively looks like (medium/lg radius on an SL, etc...) isn't germane IMHO. You could be doing short turns on a 21m ski for that matter, which it doesn't.

 

[TDK]

Nice turns, @TDK ! I wish I could do that

I am not an MA expert or anything, but it seems to me that you (at the front) are taking more aggressive turns with higher edge angle and more energetic rebound, so your buddy couldn't quite shadow you. So at some point he started keeping with your tempo rather than your speed. Meaning, he would start the turn at the same time as you, even if he wasn't so far out.

As a layman observer, matching the turn timing with different shapes seems more visually apealing than the opposite. Matching both seems extremely difficult.

Thanks for sharing!

Thanks for your input here. Nice feedback.Yes, the guy at the back is not able to match my turns as we come at the camera but as we pass and are viewed from the back he catches up. I find this interesting. I agree, matching both turn shapes, rhythm and timing is very difficult.

 

[TDK]

I have extremely limited experience with synchronized skiing. -- one run as a photo op when @Uncle Louie was passing the Gathermeister torch (figuratively, but literally would be something to see!).

His advice was front skier goes 3/4 normal speed and put the best skier in back.

I expect that paying attention to the leader and to yourself is very difficult.

You really cannot pay much attention to yourself when you ski behind somebody. Except if you have trained a lot together as a team. The skier in front needs to be able to keep a steady rhythm and the skier at the back needs to predict every turn as you need time to incline etc. When I do it with a girl from our club I always have her skiing in front. If you are several skiing you should always watch the first skier. Not the one in front of you.

 

[TDK]

Nice turns in general, but personally I don't like the park-and-ride look you get when making such long turns on SL skis. The sync does not become easier because you make such turns, quite the opposite because there is no rhythm to go on for the skier behind. Try shorter turns and with a pole plant to help the skier behind

Thanks. Carving that slope with those skis that day, edge locked, keeping my speed under control and not accelerating called for that exact turn shape, speed and rhythm. Think of it as true Slow Line Fast skiing. On previous runs, also on video, I made the exact same kind of turns. I was working on some stuff... anyway, the pole plant ide is a good one. I was also trying to extend up in the transitions to signal start of turn.

 

[TDK]

As JF Says: "Edging happens as a RESULT of the inside leg getting shorter" In regards to medium and long radius turns, this needs to become an "active/intentional" process as the turns deepens.

TDK is showing the mechanics and alignment to make this happen. Skier #2 is not and I submit that part of the reason is blocking action of his upper body counter inhibiting the alignment for strong and progressive edge building.

This is just the first thing that jumped out at me but I am sure others will see something else.

Great video for comparison TDK! Thanks.

Thanks JESinstr - great observation. Just the stuff I was looking for. Nice job. Correct observation. If you or somebody else could expand on this it would be great. Note that he did pretty well after we passed the camera. Why?