Long-Term Test: 2017 Lange RS 140

[ScotsSkier]

Hmm, with my ZA plugs I have used a dalbello, a nordica/tecnica and the stock liner....

 

[UGASkiDawg]

my RX are only 3rd season (actually 2.5), so about 50 days and liner started to pack up a little bit (I though I would be good with stock liner at least for 100, maybe 150 days). Also, liner is very cold, I mean i have no problem with 30's F but as soon as temp goes down to 20's and below.. "Houston, we have a problem". The shell is fine and had no work done or needed. Shell fit shows about 15 mm, and I am using ultra thin socks, if that is matter.

P.S. off post, just wondering if there is such a service which would evaluate my current boots (for a fee of course) without trying to sell me a new boots no matter what.

Any good bootfitter will do that for you.

 

[markojp]

Regarding BD and other foam liners, is it true that they are higher volume than the stock liners? I'm a very snug fit (forefoot and instep) and inquired about BD and other liners from 2 boot fitters who both said there wouldn't be room since the stock liners are lower volume than aftermarket. I'm not at all unhappy with my stock liners but have heard these boots run a little cold so I was mainly inquiring about the BD for warmth since I have poor circulation in my bad ankle.

These are great boots and much more comfortable than my last pair of Langes from the early 90's!

FWIW, the Head liners very little volume before foaming.

 

[surfandski]

No. Not in my experience, and in the experience of four family members and probably a dozen close friends. And in my boot guy who is a good friend and foams at least 100 pairs a season. Also sells ZipFit, Intuition, and had two other foam lines before going all in with BD. None of us have any affiliation with BD.

I'm in a pretty tight shell fit. I would bet that some "fitters" would start buy sizing me up. Wrong way to go. My daughter and daughter in law are in a very tight shell fit {but positively roomy compared to many, many years in a plug. My son has an 11E foot in a 305mm Doberman that has a lot of work done to it. So all tight. All in various liners. All made by BD, as they have a couple of friends for whom they are a preferred go to. Plenty of room for the liners. Great fit. Nice mix of comfort and performance. They just work.

Are they warmer? I think so, and only because of the fact that they eliminate an pressure points, and your circulation tends to be good. It's got nothing, IME, to do with the actual foam, the volume of the liner, etc. My wife had hers fitted to accomdate her heated socks. No heat for the rest of us. We have a lot of data in them and they have not degraded, stretched, etc. One pair has about 300 days on it. I'm guessing they they may go to 400. That's pretty good, until compared to a few ZipFits that I know are edging up on 1000.

My brother has a foam Head liner, and is similarly "sold". Loves them. There are a lot of good foam liners out there.

Have never heard a boot guy, or lady, experienced with a foam liner and foaming process suggest that they have too much volume compared to any stock liner, let alone an RS liner.

Yes, a few changes to the technology since your last pair of Lange's. Enjoy the new boots!

Good info! I've heard many good things about the BD liners. My biggest hesitation with lace up liners is that I know that my right ankle is going to be fused at some point in the not too distant future and I'm not sure if it would make it more, or less, difficult to get into my boots with the liners on without much plantar flexion. I'm hoping I can talk the surgeon into scoping it first to get me through next season at least.

 

[Muleski]

Good info! I've heard many good things about the BD liners. My biggest hesitation with lace up liners is that I know that my right ankle is going to be fused at some point in the not too distant future and I'm not sure if it would make it more, or less, difficult to get into my boots with the liners on without much plantar flexion. I'm hoping I can talk the surgeon into scoping it first to get me through next season at least.

By lace-ups, are you talking about the BD's. If so, I don't know anybody who actually uses the laces, let alone puts on the liner outside of the boot....as one does with a "sock" lace upon a plug boot. Even with the thin BD WC liner, I know few who put it on outside first. No need to do so.

They work, A lot of money. I have a friend who has one fused ankle and also has a lot of problems with his other foot. He's in a Head that has had a lot of shell work, and a Head foam liner. Very pleased. And he's on snow about six days a week.

 

[surfandski]

By lace-ups, are you talking about the BD's. If so, I don't know anybody who actually uses the laces, let alone puts on the liner outside of the boot....as one does with a "sock" lace upon a plug boot. Even with the thin BD WC liner, I know few who put in one first. And I know few who use that specific liner.

They work, A lot of money. I have a friend who has one fused ankle and also has a lot of problems with his other foot. He's in a Head that has had a lot of shell work, and a Head foam liner. Very pleased. And he's on snow about six days a week.

Oh that's great news! For some reason I thought people were lacing up most after market liners and then then slipping the liners into the boot each time. Thankfully, the more I read, the more I'm starting to realize that getting my ankle fused won't be the "skiing death sentence" I had suspected.

 

[Philpug]

I am using the BD WC lace ups but without laces, they are just in my shells and no issues getting in and out. @surfandski, @Susie has a fused ankle and might be able to add some direction.

 

[markojp]

Oh that's great news! For some reason I thought people were lacing up most after market liners and then then slipping the liners into the boot each time. Thankfully, the more I read, the more I'm starting to realize that getting my ankle fused won't be the "skiing death sentence" I had suspected.

No laces for me either. It's just a royal pain in the arse to do the foot in liner, then liner in boot thing.

 

[Philpug]

No laces for me either. It's just a royal pain in the arse to do the foot in liner, then liner in boot thing.

I wll clarify on my use of no laces. The BD foam liner is rigid enough to stand up on it's own, when I was using a Tecnica or Head lace up. I needed to lace then on the foot before entering the shell. Like many things, all lace ups are not created equal.

 

[Muleski]

I wll clarify on my use of no laces. The BD foam liner is rigid enough to stand up on it's own, when I was using a Tecnica or Head lace up. I needed to lace then on the foot before entering the shell. Like many things, all lace ups are not created equal.

Good point, @Philpug. The laceups that are provided with most plug boots are still more like "sock" liners. Some have a tiny bit of rigidity. But almost all do need to go on the foot, be laced up, and then into the boot.

The world of liners with some lace system has expanded. Not sure what they actually add.

Over the years, we went through a lot of laceup liners with a lot of plug boots. It seemed like we'd ruin the lacing systems before the liners were actually shot, because of the abrasion of squeezing in. The fabric loops which wee used has short lives. Also had the soles of the liners deteriorate, normally at the heel. Nowadays, they are a bit better built. Still similar.

As "lace-ups" became sort of cool, and using them improved performance in some boots, it seems like a lot of non plug liners added a couple of eyelets and some laces. Not sure if they really do a thing!

We have five skiers in the family in BD's and I don't think any of us used the laces, once. No need as you say. I'm very surprised that a boot guy experienced withthe product would suggest the liner on outside the boot method. Almost sounds like a suggestion to sell against them. And again, no BD affiliation here.

Sock liner, without the slight rigidity, no choice.
And agree with @markojp. Too much of a pain to wrestle with them for me! Before the BD's I had a Doberman laceup, which was just firm enough that I could keep them in my boots. Still had to fiddle with them.

 

[Oleg S]

Hi,
Am I getting this correctly... for BD liner:
a. don't have to put liner first, then put shell second
b. don't have to lace up the liner before inserting it into the shell
In other words, just use it as regular stock liner.. right?
thank you.

 

[ScotsSkier]

In my experience with plug boots whether you need to put the liner on first or not depends on the boot and the liner!/ With the Atomic (Rt TI and STI) I could always get the boot on and off with the liner in so threw away the laces. With the Tecnica/Dobie, I need to lace up the liner and then put foot/liner in the boot. But removing i find easiest to undo the lacing and pull foot out without removing the liner. With the Lange ZA, and a Dalbello liner, I need to put on and remove with the liner on my foot... (can't actually remember if I could remove with the liner still in boot with the technica and OEM liners!)

 

[Muleski]

Hi,
Am I getting this correctly... for BD liner:
a. don't have to put liner first, then put shell second
b. don't have to lace up the liner before inserting it into the shell
In other words, just use it as regular stock liner.. right?
thank you.

Yes. You can put your foot into the liner, when it is in the boot. I remove mine only to dry them. No need to use the traditional plug boot entry, as @ScotsSkier describes. Of course if you have a 92mm plug, and and a BD WC liner, you might decide to put the liner on first.

The experience in my family is with a WC Dobermann, a Head Raptor 120, Lange RS 130, RS140, and RX130. All of the liners stay in the boots.

And I can speak to, in terms of current foam liners to the BD. My brother keeps his Head foam liners in his Head Raptor 140's. He is very sold on that a liner.

 

[markojp]

My brother keeps his Head foam liners in his Head Raptor 140's. He is very sold on that a liner.

That makes two of us.

 

[Viking9]

I have always associated foam liners with cold feet ( I SUFFER from real bad circulation ) but after going on line and checking out those BD liners, all I can say is WOW, man they look nice.
I have heated socks, those things really have my attention, does anyone know if there around mammoth?
Sorry for the hijack.

 

[markojp]

No worries... I won some boot heaters and plan on using them a lot!

 

[Muleski]

My wife uses heated socks in hers on cold days. We all have different opinions of "cold", and that's probably under 15F. The rest of us use no heat. Force of habit, I guess! We all find them to be warmer than our plugs. Could be that we've fooled ourselves, but I am convinced that the blood circulation is better. Consistent fit.

My impression is that foam liners in general are much improved over the past 10 years. All of them.

 

[BGreen]

Also, I got a good enough deal on this boot that I could afford to go to an after market liner and rereading this whole thread again I read some great reviews on the BD liners. If that would be a good option for me how would I got about getting those somewhere around Denver-Summit County? On the BD website I only see a dealer in Telluride and that's over 5 hrs from where I'll be staying.

Denver Sports Lab carries or can order BD.

 

[surfandski]

I just ordered some Hotronic heaters which I'll install in my stock RS 130 liners but am glad to know that the BD liners are an option for me. I believe I also read that they stiffen up the boot a bit which isn't a bad thing given my ankle.

 

[skifastDDS]

Has anyone found that the lowers of their RS140s have an extremely sharp edge? Mine took a big gouge out of the lateral heel area of a liner during the fitting process, and both of my hands were bleeding during that process as well.

After about 7 days of skiing, my liners have damage on the medial and lateral sides of both ankles, although none nearly as bad as the intial avulsed portion incurred during the fitting process.

I used a rotary instrument to round the edge.

The result:

Hopefully this will prevent further damage to the liners [and my hands]. I understand that many don't like the stock liners, but I like them and have no complaints about their functional characteristics. I use the laces and put them on race-style, otherwise the overlap won't close correctly. I've tried various forms of duct tape to cover the deep damaged area of the liner, but all of them have failed due to the high abrasion demand of entry and exit into the boot after a few ski days. I've had to clean the adhesive residue out of the lower as it makes getting the boot on much harder. I'd rather not cut off the avulsed part of the liner, since it is a deep cut, but that may be the best option. This seems to be a manufacturing defect on Lange's part. I had two sets of Nordica ZR liners that lasted for many years.

Does anyone have any suggestions for repairing the damaged area of the liner?