Liners or New Boots — General Confirmation Sought

[Read Blinn]

The stock liners on my Dalbello Boss boots (26.5-ish mondo, 307 BSL) are shot — tons of ankle pain lasting days afterward. In many ways I've liked the boot for its more upright stance, excellent heel cup (still no movement after 116 days), and low cuff, so I thought to replace the liners. On the other hand, for the past couple of seasons I've found the boot inadequate to pressuring the forebody of the ski. The boot is a "110" flex (I'm a short guy), FWIW, but I don't believe the boots were designed for carve-mechanics, anyway — seem more park boot than racing boot. Bill Haight at GMOL fitted them.

Unready to buy new boots, though, I stopped at a local shop (naming no names) to ask about liners. People have liked this place, which carries Boot Doc and Intuition, but I've had no experience with their boot fitting. While the owner was checking liner stock, the fitter seemed bent on discouraging liners and encouraging boots. Intuition, he said, has terrible heel-hold — this contradicts what I was told by the Kästle rep, who'd used Intuition for years and loved them. Then the owner reappeared to say they didn't have liners in my size.

I mentioned my other boot concerns, and the fitter said, Why bother with liners, then? Just buy a new boot. Everything's on sale right now.

I said I'd consider it, and that I'd call back to make an appointment. The owner said, "Oh, you don't need an appointment. We have top-flight boot fitters here all the time." I must have looked skeptical because, after a moment, he said, "People don't keep appointments, anyway. Well, maybe you do, but . . . ." After I left the shop, I called Nick Blaylock at Mount Snow.

So my question, I guess, is: liners or boots?

Are Intuitions really weak at the heel? Is Boot Doc better? Is there any point in shelling out for liners (neither are cheap, BD, especially) when I should be transitioning a different something in boots (a challenge)?

 

[Jilly]

Well naturally they want to sell you new boots...more money to made there.

I guess the other question to ask....are you really, really happy with the boots? You want to spend the money on the liners and might still not be in love with the boot?

 

[François Pugh]

Seems to me you need more forward lean to pressure the tips, but you're happy with the more upright stance.
Is the forward lean adjustable? If not only you can make the decision on what you want.

Also, it sounds like there is something other than packed out liners going on, just because in my vast experience and to the best of my slight knowledge heel hold down and packed out liners do not exist together. You need to find a good boot fitter to sort it out.

 

[pais alto]

My 2¢: Intuition liners can, and often do, stiffen a boot making them more responsive...depending on which ones you get. https://intuitionliners.com/product-category/the-liners/

And that heel hold comment is bullshit.

 

[ScotsSkier]

new boots.

 

[Read Blinn]

I guess the other question to ask....are you really, really happy with the boots? You want to spend the money on the liners and might still not be in love with the boot?

Yes . . . and no.

 

[Read Blinn]

Also, it sounds like there is something other than packed out liners going on, just because in my vast experience and to the best of my slight knowledge heel hold down and packed out liners do not exist together. You need to find a good boot fitter to sort it out.

I do. But the liner problem is pretty obvious. The mid-buckle (the Boss is a cabrio) is entirely cranked down, and the ankle pain is evident, and new. At 116 days, packing elsewhere in the boot might not have happened, but at pressure points, it has.

 

[Read Blinn]

And that heel hold comment is bullshit.

I assume you mean the fitter's comment. I thought so.

 

[T-Square]

Well I did some looking and found three different companies that make replacement liners.

Intuition Liners: http://intuitionliners.com/

ZipFit: http://www.zipfit.com/

Full Tilt Boots: http://en-us.fulltiltboots.com/ski-boot-liners/pro-ski-boot-liner

As in anything there will be proponents and opponents to all of these. I've had Intuitions and liked them, they were warm. I'd love to try ZipFits. I know nothing about the Full Tilts.

Everything will depend on your current boot, and your foot.

 

[Read Blinn]

Hi T,

There's Boot Doc, too, which Phil reviewed here, but they're pricey. At that point, depending, I could be better off springing for a new boot. (Though I have a somewhat challenging foot.)

 

[Tony]

Another option for replacement liners is Palau, made in the French Pyrenees. They are taller and have areas with higher density foam than Intuition, but are not easy to find and you would want them fitted by someone with experience using them. I got them at Olympic Bootworks at Squaw and they replaced Intuitions that had over 200 days on them and should get me a couple of more years out of my Langes. Mine were $200 including custom molding into boots originally purchased there.

I didn't like the idea of ZipFits which required putting on and lacing liner first, then putting liner into boot and they cost a lot, i.e. $450.

See http://www.palau-boutique.com/comfort-precision-performance.cfm

 

[Read Blinn]

Another option for replacement liners is Palau, made in the French Pyrenees. They are taller and have areas with higher density foam than Intuition, but are not easy to find and you would want them fitted by someone with experience using them. I got them at Olympic Bootworks at Squaw and they replaced Intuitions that had over 200 days on them and should get me a couple of more years out of my Langes. Mine were $200 including custom molding into boots originally purchased there.

Thanks. I'll look into those. Taller might not work for me, since I'm shorter, and I have noticeable calves.

Thanks to whomever fixed my title.

 

[raytseng]

A question is did you require a lot of boot customization for the current shell to get them where they are? If they are pretty much offtheshelf, that would be a tick in new/replacement boot column.

 

[cantunamunch]

OK as I've posted elsewhere it depends on which liner you pick. A power wrap will hold you - even at carve mechanic standards whereas a Dreamliner will feel like one of the old Raichle Santa Claus liners. The only liners that can somewhat fix an iffy shell are the stiff power wraps or Zipfits. BootDoc I have no experience with.

Here's the kicker: given the choice - new Lange or Tecnica or heck even Solly xpro liner vs. Dreamliner or Luxury - factory liner wins. Especially if you wind up in mouldable shells. So there is absolutely no point in transferring those (or Conformables) to a new pair of boots.

My point here? Go find new boots. If you wind up in a smaller shell then the dalbellos weren't worth saving anyway.

In the meantime, for giggles, go find a newish factory liner for cheap either from the fitter or from ebay. Ski it in the old shells, at least one day. You will either convince yourself beyond doubt that you need new boots or you will find out what a Zipfit or similar premium liner can do for you.

 

[Read Blinn]

A question is did you require a lot of boot customization for the current shell to get them where they are? If they are pretty much offtheshelf, that would be a tick in new/replacement boot column.

Oh, yeah. The Dalbello's last is around 103 mm; I have a 4E foot, so lots of punching, and could have used more. Wide foot, high instep, big calves, short lever. I had recurring pain over the metatarsals, too, especially in warm weather.

@cantunamunch's suggestion is probably the right one — new boots — but the can of worms factor gives me pause.

 

[cantunamunch]

I assume you mean the fitter's comment. I thought so.

Yes and no - the softer range of Intuitions rely on tight heel fit from the shell and won't hold a sloppy fitted heel for more than 10-15 days. The Power Wraps will hold for longer, even much longer BUT they will preserve current alignment errors. If you are slightly overedged for example, that error will be preserved for posterity or the next remould, whichever comes first.

 

[ScottB]

If I was you, I would go see a good bootfitter and bring your old boots. He will be able to tell you if your shells are worth continuing with and get you into new liners. Sounds like you aren't completely happy with your shells, so you probably know the answer. Trying on some new boots will also give you a comparison with what you have. There is a great guy near Stowe, I think the shop is Race Stock in Waterbury VT. Muleski uses a good shop that I assume is in Maine.

 

[Read Blinn]

If I was you, I would go see a good bootfitter and bring your old boots. He will be able to tell you if your shells are worth continuing with and get you into new liners. Sounds like you aren't completely happy with your shells, so you probably know the answer. Trying on some new boots will also give you a comparison with what you have. There is a great guy near Stowe, I think the shop is Race Stock in Waterbury VT. Muleski uses a good shop that I assume is in Maine.

Thanks, Scott. I've got the fitter covered, just over an hour away.

 

[Read Blinn]

Yes and no - the softer range of Intuitions rely on tight heel fit from the shell and won't hold a sloppy fitted heel for more than 10-15 days. The Power Wraps will hold for longer, even much longer BUT they will preserve current alignment errors. If you are slightly overedged for example, that error will be preserved for posterity or the next remould, whichever comes first.

Heel hold will be no problem then. Bill thought about sole-planing, and suggested skiing with me to find out, but I could never get over there when he was available.

I'm leaning, a little regretfully, toward new boots.

 

[James]

Are you going to Nick Blaylock(sp?)
If he's still open just go. It's worth the money even if tou just get an assessment and recommendations.

You have "park boots"? Don't know what that means, but at 4E width you're choices may be limited, Race shells are narrow.

Intuition can be all over the place. I have a pair of the tongue ones. They're crap. Sorry, but even the most basic factory liner can make a tongue while intuition can't. Ie it's not stiff. Pathetic.

The whole liner/boots question only you can answer. If the shells really worked, the answer is obvious- Liners. Since they don't, well new shells that come with free liners.

Just because someone "loves" something means nothing. Heelhold inan intuition would be more a function of the shell they go in. That's solvable anyway so it's moot.