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Jeff
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All the great names come quickly to mind, Stenmark, Maeir, Klammer, Tomba, Maze, Kostelic......

For the record, I'm a huge Vonn fan. Yuge!!

Anyway, Outside Magazine thinks she's the best ever and breaks out the supporting evidence in this article..... What say you??

Outside Magazine: The Conqueror: Lindsey Vonn https://goo.gl/ckAbR5
 

Frankly

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I know that Outside Magazine is a contemptuous rag that hires terrible writers and makes lousy editorial decisions.

However I have much admiration for Lindsey Vonn, although I think she has had the fortune of having a weaker field to compete against.

Best? Certainly she's the best at her niche, as Stenmark and Klammer and Maeir were to theirs, but it's impossible to compare directly. The nature of the races has changed a lot over the years so it's Apples to Oranges.

I think we need to add Hirscher in there and leave a spot for Shiffren down the road.
 
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Jeff
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However I have much admiration for Lindsey Vonn, although I think she has had the fortune of having a weaker field to compete against.

I knew someone would make this assertion. :eek: I do think she has a very formidable rival in Ilka Stuhec now.

I think we need to add Hirscher in there and leave a spot for Shiffren down the road.

I agree.....

 
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Jeff
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I'm skeptical she can beat Ilka now and I bet she won't beat Stenmark's record. It also shows the ski equipment hierarchy really matters... Ilka got Maze's skis and took off. Give someone like Laurenne Ross Vonn's skis and watch the same thing, potentially.

If she doesn't reach Stenmarks record it will be because of Stuhec or another injury......

I'm not sure Laurene Ross is the future of US women's speed events......or let me rephrase that to say I'm not confident in the future of the US women's speed team if she is its future....
 

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If she doesn't reach Stenmarks record it will be because of Stuhec or another injury......

I'm not sure Laurene Ross is the future of US women's speed events......or let me rephrase that to say I'm not confident in the future of the US women's speed team if she is its future....

:thumb:
 

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Vonn.....purpose built to be a speed skier, has had the benefit of a fairly weak field around her for years, and the injuries have taken their toll. Also a LOT of questions about the type of conditioning and training that RedBull and her boyfriend are managing. To be blunt, when her ex-husband was managing her program, she was highly focused one one thing. Winning every possible speed race on the calendar. She was NOT focused on being a "hottie" and on what many refer to as her "beach body." She has dropped a lot of muscle mass, and is not doubt VERY fit, but is it the the best kind of fitness to chase Stenmark's record?

The clock is ticking. I agree 100% that a BIG part of Stuhec's success are her skis. Not everybody agrees. A number of folks who I think know their stuff are convinced that the skis are absolute rockets. I know that Stuhec's skiing shot forward once Maze and her boyfriend/coach exited the picture and quit bleeding the Slovenian federation dry. Not an accident that as a team they have shot forward. But the kind of gains that she made are not close to normal. Skis? hat else could it be? Her conditioning?

So now Vonn has Stuhec to deal with, and she will have Lara Gut back and healthy. Gut can contend for almost every speed race on the calendar. Sofia Goggia is rumored to be embarking on a serious fitness regime through the summer and fall. I would also assume that Atomic will put huge resources into her setup. Last season Goggia skied on the edge a lot, and ran out of gas at the bottom of many tracks. Fix those two things, and she's looking at winning.

So, my take is that we have a diminished Vonn, and an older Vonn. Still has the best skis on the planet. But 2-3 years ago, if she skied cleanly, the odds were that she would not just podium, she would win. We'll see how these group all looks at Lake Louise, and we'll have a better feel for things. I suspect that we will see LV podium a ton. Beating Stenmark's record is a much better possibility now that she is extending her career for another year {two years to do it}, but I'm with Frankly. I'm not ready to bet on the record.....not without more intel. I do know that she is absolutely driven to get the record.

So.....Best ski racer ever? That's so hard to judge. Best female speed skier ever? Yes, no question. But when you get into different eras, and different everything, it's hard to compare. You have some great ones who had short careers, for example.

People mention Shiffrin. She started racing a FULL WC schedule at 16. I seriously doubt if she will still be competing at 30, let alone at Vonn's age. And MS has been very fortunate on the injury front. Just the one minor knee injury. Odds are that we'll see her miss a season at some point. Mancuso started at the same age, and she has basically been "broken" for quite some time. She's entirely different. Maybe the best woman athlete ever on the USST, but without LV's over the top drive.

I put almost zero faith into any of Outside's ski writing, or actually ANY writing about LV the rockstar. Knowing a bit about her, since she was about 11-12, I chuckle at a lot of it.

Also agree that Laurenne Ross is a damn good skier, and a real character. She is not the future of the US ski team at her age. And yes, she signed with Volkl as they paid her some money when nobody else would. Whether the skis are doing much for her is another issue.

The future of the women's speed team? Breezy Johnson. And Nellie Rose Talbot. Remember that name. A 1999, injured this fall at LL, and out for the season with an ACL. I would bet money that she will end up 2018 as the top rated DH, SG, and GS 1999 in the world. Incredible talent, combined with amazing work ethic and drive.

Lot of good young guys on the way up. Hope they are managed the right way. My favorite is Sam Morse, who I have watched ski since he was about three. That guy is built like a downhiller. Smart, strong, and an incredibly hard worker. This year's world juniors DH champ.

Best ever......Hirscher is making a hell of a case for himself. He probably gets my vote, at least in this era. He tells his friends that he will be done competing once he is 30. So we better enjoy the next two seasons. He just turned 28.

My $.02
 
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Jeff
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Great post Muleski.....

Stuhec, besides skis I gave a lot of the credit of her success to her tech and the obvious good mojo she has with her mom on the boards......just my opinion. She seemed really happy and really stoked/focused every race. Her form is very solid and she is strong.

Goggia....I love Sofia. She is fun to watch. You're correct about her conditioning. She could be a major force to reckon with.

Herscher is a technical beast. I'd hate to see him blow himself up in a speed event. He really doesn't need to run them. Same for Shiffrin. It's fun to see her in an SG every once in awhile but if she can tighten up her GS game she can lockup the overall for the foreseeable future without ever running an speed event.

I'm not hip to the kids coming up like some of you guys are. Would be interesting to watch up close. It surprises me how underfunded these kids are and the equipment games that are played. Its shameful imho........
 

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Vonn is a great ski racer, and you can make the case for her being the best woman ever on skis. But there are so many variables like conditions and equipment and course preparation that it's hard for me to pick the absolute best as I look back in time. Since I became aware of ski racing back in the 1940's, and read of racing prior to WW II, there's been a bunch of great racers, some lasted longer than others. Maybe the record for World Cup wins should be the hook to hang "Best Ever" on.

I may be the only, or at least one of the very few, here who ever got trounced in a race by Nellie Rose Talbot. She was really young (I was pretty old) and she trounced me on a parallel GS set. The wife and I talked about her that day and agreed she had a real future in ski racing. Hope it works out for her.
 

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I was wrong mentioning Ross but I was trying to think of someone like Ilka who has had a lot of starts and gained experience with the venues but has so far failed to win. And still be young enough to have a few years of success. Not many people like that especially with our pressure for immediate results.

But there is probably an Austrian....
 

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Stuhec just exploded in terms of results last year. Her mom was still her tech. I think she had the same coach. I am under the impression that her conditioning went very well. She was injury free.

So variables that changed? The skis. And, the Sovenian national system being rid of Maze and team. They basically blew off the entire system to keep up with the demands of Massi, her coach/ boyfriend. That can't be undersold. The entire team was so much better this year!

But, yeah, I think she is here to stay, and she is in her prime. Actually skis a lot like LV.

Fun to watch!
 

Muleski

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I may be the only, or at least one of the very few, here who ever got trounced in a race by Nellie Rose Talbot. She was really young (I was pretty old) and she trounced me on a parallel GS set. The wife and I talked about her that day and agreed she had a real future in ski racing. Hope it works out for her.

I first saw her as a U14, when she was technically perfect and training with an incredibly exceptional group of boys at Ski Club Vail. Saw her in the following two years of U16 Nationals, when she was in another league in SG, and would have won the GS by a lightyear had she not thrown a shoe. Watched her training as a 16 year old with the USST, and beating everybody in GS.

And speed is her best event. She is going to be a serious DHer. Like I said, great kid, hard worker. I really think she is the next big thing, as long as they let her develop the right way. I think they will. Fingers crossed.

And yeah, she is well suppprted. People love to support a kid like her.
 

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I'd add AJ Hurt in there, she's a 2000 from Tahoe. Very impressive

Absolutely. Without question! Will be interesting to see how they manage her, as she really can ski all four events. Perhaps they steer her more towards tech, despite her speed talent. Dunno. Nellie's SL is probably not on par with her speed.

But yes, AJ has shown that she is right there on the world stage with her age group peers. Awesome. In her age group, Alix Wilkinson is also great. A number of them are. In thr 1999, there are a number as well. Keely Cashman. Hard to know how they will ski in a few years.

Hope they all crush it!
 

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One makeup artist said: “No one told me Lindsey Vonn was 75 feet tall.”
From the incredible article saying she's the best skier ever, period.

It may be unfair, but best speed skier ever without a podium at the Hahnenkam or Lauberhorn in Wengen?
 

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