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Intrawest sells to Aspen and KSL

soulskier

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I'm not sure I agree with that. The SoCal and NorCal markets are distinctly different. Mammoth/Big Bear completely owns the SoCal market, both before and after the Aspen/KSL deal.

NorCal skiers know about Mammoth, but almost none of them actually go there during the winter because it's a 3-hour drive beyond Tahoe. Even on the July 1-4 holiday with Tioga Pass open, Squaw was overrun despite the far superior skiing available at Mammoth. People with a base in South Shore will probably stick with Epic as Heavenly is right there and Kirkwood not that far. NorCal skiers/riders have zero interest in Big Bear and barely know about June.

Where does someone live/have a ski house that adding Mammoth to a Squaw pass moves the needle vs. Epic? Minden/Gardnerville are an extra hour closer to Mammoth but Heavenly and Kirkwood are the most convenient areas for them.

I think quite few Tahoe skiers get Epic Local plus Mountain Collective, and will be happy with that arrangement unless/until Aspen/KSL decide to change that situation.

Tony I realize you are very analytical and a long time statistician which I appreciate very much. But it comes down to one word, Terrain. Squaw Valley and Mammoth Mountain have the best ski terrain in the state, hands down, hence my prediction that it will cut into Epic Pass Sales.

Also with the assistance of the new ownership group, look for Mammoth airport to finally divert flights to Bishop when weather is an issue. This will lead to more Bay Area visitors to fly SFO-MMH, once air service is deemed reliable.
 

TonyC

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Terrain. Squaw Valley and Mammoth Mountain have the best ski terrain in the state, hands down
I agree, no question about that. But the vast majority of skiers will ski what's convenient to them. How else to you explain Big Bear having 800K skier visits vs. 1.2 million at Mammoth when there's no comparison in terrain and snow? The gap between Epic's Tahoe resorts and Mammoth is not nearly as wide, so I don't buy that many skiers driving the extra 3 hours. The North Shore based people who prefer Squaw's terrain are probably on Squaw passes already.
 

soulskier

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I agree, no question about that. But the vast majority of skiers will ski what's convenient to them. How else to you explain Big Bear having 800K skier visits vs. 1.2 million at Mammoth when there's no comparison in terrain and snow?

According to Google, there are 23 Million people living in southern California. The close proximity to a huge population base is why Big Bear does 800K skier visits annually.
 

New2

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I agree with Tony that it wouldn't move the needle much in California. I think the biggest potential impact might be in San Diego county... those who buy Epic passes there and fly to ski (probably not all that many anyway) will take a serious look at an alternative that includes Mammoth, Squaw, Big Bear, and Steamboat (assuming that the SAN-HDN flights stick around). For Bay Area/Central Valley/Reno folks who are on the fence, it'd be a bit of a push away from Epic, but doesn't sound like a gamechanger.
 

Tricia

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Steamboat Today reported today, answering some questions about the plans for passes in the future of this new brand.

Sale of Steamboat Ski Area final, new owners will launch new brand, name for 12-resort company

From the article:

The entity’s resorts include Squaw Valley, Alpine Meadows, Mammoth Mountain Ski Area, Snow Summit, Bear Mountain and June Mountain in California; Steamboat Ski Area and Winter Park Resort in Colorado; Blue Mountain Ski Resort in Ontario; Mont Tremblant Resort in Quebec; Stratton Mountain Resort in Vermont; and Snowshoe Mountain Resort in West Virginia.

The new company expects to launch a new name and brand prior to the beginning of the 2017-18 season. For the upcoming season, the new company will continue to honor the existing pass products that are currently on sale, including the Rocker Mountain Super Pass +, the M.A.X. Pass and the Mountain Collective.
 

Jim McDonald

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Does this mean Steamboat joins the Mountain Collective Pass? :drool:
 

Jilly

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There was a post on Facebook about a possible new pass. As a Tremblant pass holder I would welcome a "company" or Epic pass. I've never been to Aspen, skied Tahoe too many years ago and would look at Steamboat too. So if they want to get more people to come to their mountains, why wouldn't they. Stratton and Snowshoe too. We get a lot of Max pass holders at Tremblant from Blue Mountain...7 hours drive...But that's limited to the number of days they can come.

Now the price of said pass could be the deciding factor for KSL/Aspen. For anyone that had a WB, even with the exchange rate it's cheaper this year under Epic. There is still a WB only pass for those that might not want to travel.
 

Tricia

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Does this mean Steamboat joins the Mountain Collective Pass? :drool:
It may in the coming years, but for the upcoming season I understand that changes will be minimal from current passes.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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I noticed that Dave Likens (BBMR) seems to be MIA in favor of Wade Reeser and Mark Brownlie. I wonder if that's an attempt to smooth things over with the city of Big Bear. There was a lot of tension between the city and resort management last year.

I would expect that any big changes will come in 2018-2019 once everyone has settled in and gotten their feet wet.
 

TonyC

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There was a lot of tension between the city and resort management last year.
What were those? I am aware what changes the customers didn't like, but not aware of issues with the city.
 

Pat AKA mustski

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What were those? I am aware what changes the customers didn't like, but not aware of issues with the city.
Rusty, Dave, and Wade were asked to attend a couple of city council meetings. The big issue was selling more tickets than BBMR parking could support. The traffic issues were really a cluster. The cash charge for parking required each car to stop to pay, this backed traffic up Summit Blvd and onto Big Bear Blvd and it continued all day long. Couple that with both the Brownie and Fox Farm lots filling early which resulted in frustrated skiers cruising the streets looking for somewhere to park and it got really bad for locals and local businesses. Even though they expanded the parking for Bear Mountain, they had the same issues with inadequate parking. At least, the traffic didn't block the main Blvd. However, residents had a hard time getting in and out of their neighborhoods. Skiers bought lift tickets online and arrived in BB only to find no available parking - pay lot or public. The Mammoth folks blamed Big Bear's poor public transportation. That's kind of funny actually because the buses were stuck in the same traffic snafu as everyone else. I don't think anything was actually resolved. The minutes of the meetings are online but they don't detail the BBMR response to city concerns. It's odd; it just says Dave Liken (or Rusty or Wade) responded. Apparently there are videos also, but I'm too lay to sit through a video of a city council meeting!

ETA: there's always been some complaining about the "flat landers" descending on BB. I live in a beach community and hear the same thing during the summer here. I have to say that I have never heard as much negativity as the last couple of years. The general feeling of the the BB locals,right now, is that the new management can only be an improvement.
 
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Tricia

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I'm not sure this is much of anything except Good Stoke, while I'm facing 105º temps today.
Enjoy.
 

KingGrump

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And the fight is on. :yahoo:
 

Ron

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It may in the coming years, but for the upcoming season I understand that changes will be minimal from current passes.

there will be no changes to passes this year. the new company may announce changes to next seasons passes/offerings as early as October but nothing is certain. i cannot foresee anything major to be honest, we're at 1150 now, if i had to guess, and frankly all of us are unless someone has inside info, there's no way you are going to see slashed pass prices. most likely a pass with some days added for the other resorts. but we dont even know what resorts will be kept, sold or if new resorts will be purchased. enjoy the summer!
 

Tony

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Snowbrains posted "All existing pass products that are currently on sale will be honored, including the Rocky Mountain Super Pass +, Mountain Collective and the M.A.X. Pass, but unfortunately it’s too late to offer a special pass for 2017/18 across all 16 resorts. A new pass across all 12 resorts will most likely be available for the 2018/19 season." See https://snowbrains.com/ksl-aspen-sk...th-resorts-deal-much-bigger-thought/#comments

Not sure that Squaw/Alpine/Mammoth/June + So Cal resorts and a lot of other places I'm not likely to go (although I do want to get to Steamboat someday and Mammoth/Squaw ran lifts months later this season than Vail CA resorts) works better for me than a Tahoe Vail pass plus Mountain Collective.
 
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Muleski

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there will be no changes to passes this year. the new company may announce changes to next seasons passes/offerings as early as October but nothing is certain. i cannot foresee anything major to be honest, we're at 1150 now, if i had to guess, and frankly all of us are unless someone has inside info, there's no way you are going to see slashed pass prices. most likely a pass with some days added for the other resorts. but we dont even know what resorts will be kept, sold or if new resorts will be purchased. enjoy the summer!

This. ^^^^^.

This is just the start of things to come. Agree with @Ron. Timing wise, this year will reflect keeping things moving along while they get their arms around the business, and begin plan many changes. Some resorts sold, IMO, more to come. Then a plan as to how to fit it all together, and maximize results. I would bet on little change this winter, and substantial change to rollout in 2018. Including more people changes, BTW.

Will be very interesting to follow. Do we know the new name yet? Anybody heard of rumors regarding Europe or the Southern Hemisphere?

Much more excited about this venture than about Vail buying another property, and selling the additional Epic Pass sales numbers to the street. I'm curious about everything to do with this one.

I doubt very seriously if this is a "Follow Vail and price like Epic" plan. But there's a lot of silence and guessing from the customer world.
The whole landscape will likely change in a year. And It sounds to me like it will not be one size fits all.

I hear chatter in Aspen, Steamboat, at Stratton, and in CO...and it's all a bit different. Which tells me that a lot of lips are pretty well sealed.

Interesting stuff. Much more to it that pass deals, strategy and pricing....though no doubt that will be carefully assessed for 2018-2019.

The promo video is a good one. Fun!
 
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