I guess after apex I should flex outside knee more and earlier, reducing stance width and lead. .
Does somebody have other suggestions how to improve skiing?
Thank you.
Alex
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In medium radius turns
- Thread starter alexz
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I guess after apex I should flex outside knee more and earlier, reducing stance width and lead. .
Does somebody have other suggestions how to improve skiing?
Thank you.
Alex
@alexz, Good start at self appraisal. There is a lot of good things in your skiing. You seem to understand flex and extend, you are riding the ski, and you have some good angulation. Let's build on those strengths.
For practice on this, back down the terrain a bit. I always recommend easier terrain for learning new or refining old skills. It makes it easier to refine the moves, then you can take them to steeper terrain.
You've got flexition and extension, however, you do it all at once and then hold your position through the bottom of the turn. Then a quick move up and over to the next turn. (You might hear this called park and ride.) Try slowing your flex and extend down. Allow your legs to reach out in the turn so when your skis are pointed down the fall line you are at maximum extension. Then, as your skis turn across the hill, let your legs retract under you until you reach transition. Then as you move over your skis into the next turn allow your legs to extend as you guide your skis into the fall line. Let your legs continually move in and out. This is the dance with gravity, continuous movement as you flow down the hill.
Once you have that mastered then think about just drawing back on your inside foot to prevent that ski and leg from drifting forward. This will be much easier to do once you have mastered continuous movement while flexing and extending.
Only work on one thing at a time. Smile and enjoy the experience.
Have fun skiing!
For practice on this, back down the terrain a bit. I always recommend easier terrain for learning new or refining old skills. It makes it easier to refine the moves, then you can take them to steeper terrain.
You've got flexition and extension, however, you do it all at once and then hold your position through the bottom of the turn. Then a quick move up and over to the next turn. (You might hear this called park and ride.) Try slowing your flex and extend down. Allow your legs to reach out in the turn so when your skis are pointed down the fall line you are at maximum extension. Then, as your skis turn across the hill, let your legs retract under you until you reach transition. Then as you move over your skis into the next turn allow your legs to extend as you guide your skis into the fall line. Let your legs continually move in and out. This is the dance with gravity, continuous movement as you flow down the hill.
Once you have that mastered then think about just drawing back on your inside foot to prevent that ski and leg from drifting forward. This will be much easier to do once you have mastered continuous movement while flexing and extending.
Only work on one thing at a time. Smile and enjoy the experience.
Have fun skiing!
Good advice so far. Your tip lead is quite pronounced, leading to restricted range of motion in your legs. Consider cocking your inside leg under you thoughout the shaping phase to improve your balance and narrow your stance. You also press down rather hard on your outside ski rather than lifting the inside half of your body, and you add pressure to the outside foot all at once, rather than progressively. Both contribute to the somewhat static look folks have noticed. Take a look at the thread just below yours titled, "Instructor Training in New Zealand." You may find it helpful as it addresses many of the areas we are discussing. Good luck!
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Thread Starter
TS
Thanks, I took, and it is interesting, as well as I watched video "Project Kitz..." and "Project Hun..." by Reilly McGlashan et al.
I am going to work with that this week-end.
Look at @razie avatar (hope razie doesn't change his avatar). You are trying to mimic this. To an untrained eye and untrained skier it is the same. Ski separation and leg seperation are different.
Leg seperation is what you are doing (i.e. widening your stance).
Ski seperation is seperating the skis to allow boot clearance in the turn, however the skis remain fairly narrow.
Both look similar and leave similar tracks if done in turns, yet they are vastly different in how they effect your skiing.
Without skis, but boots on and holding onto something (someone), starting boots tight together lean over lots and keep your boots side to side at all times. Your inner leg must retract so that your outer boot stays in touch with the floor. This is ski seperation. Roll back up to the vertical but don't move your boots from the largest seperation point, you end up with you legs apart. This is leg separation.
In a turn leg seperation leads to "A" framing your stance so you tend to wt the inside ski more without a proper edge set.
Don't worry all skiers must go through this learning and understanding stage, lots just never leave and don't understand why if it "looks" right, it doesn't work right.
This it why in the simplest terms possible. There are lots of different terms and methodologies don't worry about that, just the concept.
The other real instructors will advise on the fine points better than I.
Leg seperation is what you are doing (i.e. widening your stance).
Ski seperation is seperating the skis to allow boot clearance in the turn, however the skis remain fairly narrow.
Both look similar and leave similar tracks if done in turns, yet they are vastly different in how they effect your skiing.
Without skis, but boots on and holding onto something (someone), starting boots tight together lean over lots and keep your boots side to side at all times. Your inner leg must retract so that your outer boot stays in touch with the floor. This is ski seperation. Roll back up to the vertical but don't move your boots from the largest seperation point, you end up with you legs apart. This is leg separation.
In a turn leg seperation leads to "A" framing your stance so you tend to wt the inside ski more without a proper edge set.
Don't worry all skiers must go through this learning and understanding stage, lots just never leave and don't understand why if it "looks" right, it doesn't work right.
This it why in the simplest terms possible. There are lots of different terms and methodologies don't worry about that, just the concept.
The other real instructors will advise on the fine points better than I.
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Mike, Looks like you are really enjoying your time in NZ. SOOO Jealous.
In JF's "How to develop new motor patterns" video, he makes the statement that "Edging happens as a result of the inside leg getting shorter" So now they may have broadened it to "lifting the inside half" Yes/No? If so, this makes a lot of sense because you don't always have to actively shorten the inside leg. Edging can happen by simply lifting the inside half of the body. It would explain why we see a pronounced, active shortening of the inside leg in larger and faster turns (when dynamics require it sort of like a higher gear) vs those of the short radius variety or when speed is low. And just to reiterate your point. you can't effectively use the inside half if it is out of balance and not participating (aka foot not underneath).
Alexz: Reilly's "Project Kitz" is an excellent resource. His company, Projected Productions. has two more videos that build on it. All excellent. I'll be skiing with Reilly next week; I'll pass on your positive response!
JESinstr: I'm off to the hill now. Will reply in a few hours!
JESinstr: I'm off to the hill now. Will reply in a few hours!
Alex, why are you in the positions you are in? All skiing starts at the feet, so we'll look there first.
Feet that wide apart, why?
Inside foot that far forward?
Looks pretty heavy on the inside ski?
Knees bent that much?
Body facing in the direction of travel?
Body leaning inward toward the turn?
Shoulders tilted inward to the turn?
Inside hand thrust forward & low?
Outside hand high?
My take...Our bodies have been balancing themselves with our feet at walking width since we were a year or two old. Don't fight it. Walking width stance. (exceptions--wide for stability with sloppy boots, wide stance for unaligned bow legs, very narrow stance for unaligned knock knees.)
...Feet side by side. Our skis have a sweet spot somewhere forward of the toe bindings. If the sweet spots are under the body center of mass, the skis ski their best as the designer intended. Pulling the inside foot strongly back all the time through every turn impels the body forward over the sweet spots--like turning on power steering. Thrusting one foot forward puts that ski's tail under the center of max, and weight on the tail always results in poor skiing.
...Keep the outside knee nearly straight until the turn is released. Much easier on the knees & quads. Handle the building forces through the turn by more leg angle to the snow from more angulation.
...Keep the inside ski light on the snow. More weight on the outside ski immediately improves the skiing when there's a base to ski on.
...Turn the body from the hips upward all the way toward the outside of the turn (called counter) while pulling the inside foot back . This facilitates angulation and takes up rotation in the hip joints to help keep the ski tails from sliding out.
...Angulate--bend a bit in the middle toward the outside of the turn--for better edge engagement.
...The old saying about tilting the shoulders about equal to the tilt of the hill still works well.
...Inside shoulder/arm/hand high & forward (but not thrust straight forward), outside shoulder/arm/hand low and back. Back so your pole tap is down the fall line from your heel or even back farther.
Here's a pic I stole from the interwebz. I'd put his outside shoulder & arm a bit higher and farther forward, and his inside ski a bit lighter, but he is easy and balanced as he's skiing.
Feet that wide apart, why?
Inside foot that far forward?
Looks pretty heavy on the inside ski?
Knees bent that much?
Body facing in the direction of travel?
Body leaning inward toward the turn?
Shoulders tilted inward to the turn?
Inside hand thrust forward & low?
Outside hand high?
My take...Our bodies have been balancing themselves with our feet at walking width since we were a year or two old. Don't fight it. Walking width stance. (exceptions--wide for stability with sloppy boots, wide stance for unaligned bow legs, very narrow stance for unaligned knock knees.)
...Feet side by side. Our skis have a sweet spot somewhere forward of the toe bindings. If the sweet spots are under the body center of mass, the skis ski their best as the designer intended. Pulling the inside foot strongly back all the time through every turn impels the body forward over the sweet spots--like turning on power steering. Thrusting one foot forward puts that ski's tail under the center of max, and weight on the tail always results in poor skiing.
...Keep the outside knee nearly straight until the turn is released. Much easier on the knees & quads. Handle the building forces through the turn by more leg angle to the snow from more angulation.
...Keep the inside ski light on the snow. More weight on the outside ski immediately improves the skiing when there's a base to ski on.
...Turn the body from the hips upward all the way toward the outside of the turn (called counter) while pulling the inside foot back . This facilitates angulation and takes up rotation in the hip joints to help keep the ski tails from sliding out.
...Angulate--bend a bit in the middle toward the outside of the turn--for better edge engagement.
...The old saying about tilting the shoulders about equal to the tilt of the hill still works well.
...Inside shoulder/arm/hand high & forward (but not thrust straight forward), outside shoulder/arm/hand low and back. Back so your pole tap is down the fall line from your heel or even back farther.
Here's a pic I stole from the interwebz. I'd put his outside shoulder & arm a bit higher and farther forward, and his inside ski a bit lighter, but he is easy and balanced as he's skiing.
JESinstr: In answer to your query, all the coaches here emphasize accurate and functional activity of the feet as the cornerstone of good skiing. To allow this to occur, the core (lower abdomen in front and glutes in back) must be engaged to give you the stable center that allows your extremities to be relaxed, supple and responsive. If you engage your core before starting out, lift your toes (dorsiflex) and suck your feet down into your footbeds, you will be in an extremely strong, functional, "cuff neutral" position right off the bat. Once your skis start down the hill, and you start to flatten/pronate the outside foot progressively in the shaping phase, the inside half of your body, starting with the inside foot, must lift simultaneously, and proportionally to the slope of the hill, with your upper body in functional counter, to allow you to balance effectively on that outside foot. Now, how much you choose to lift the inside foot, and at what rate and duration, will have an effect on the intensity and duration of the turn. In addition, how high up the kinetic chain that countered lift of the inside half of the body goes will also have an effect. Probably a good rule of thumb is to start lifting with the inside foot and add the thigh and hip as much, and only as much, as necessary to achieve the turn radius and intensity you wish in the terrain you find yourself. As PTskier mentions above, that may also involve some lift of the inside shoulder as well. Make sense?
Any other questions, feel free to ask!
Best!
Mike
Any other questions, feel free to ask!
Best!
Mike
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No more two footed skiing for you. That's no1. What can we do in a weekend...?
...cold, written, forum feedback may sound negative - don't let this put you in a negative mood or feel overwhelmed...
You need to underline to your subconscious that we should ski with our feet... while your feet are pretty lazy right now: You need to be actively tipping the skis with the ankles, actively keeping the feet together (laterally), actively keeping weight OFF the inside ski tail and actively keeping the inside ski from shooting forward !
So. I would spend the entire weekend focusing on your one footed balance and using your feet! you would do well on most of these with a simple cue: try to keep touching the inside boot heel to the outside boot ankle. IIf you spend your weekend like that, you'll be in a better position...
After that, you need to angulate as well. This is a conscious effort to lift your inside hip and effortfully counterbalance with both shoulders over the outside ski. - as in the photo above
cheers
p.s. if you work hard enough for a while, you will feel tired and pain in some muscles you didn't know you had... or had to use... so give it a rest a day or so before the exam. slow drills like Javelins on green are great for this
...cold, written, forum feedback may sound negative - don't let this put you in a negative mood or feel overwhelmed...
You need to underline to your subconscious that we should ski with our feet... while your feet are pretty lazy right now: You need to be actively tipping the skis with the ankles, actively keeping the feet together (laterally), actively keeping weight OFF the inside ski tail and actively keeping the inside ski from shooting forward !
So. I would spend the entire weekend focusing on your one footed balance and using your feet! you would do well on most of these with a simple cue: try to keep touching the inside boot heel to the outside boot ankle. IIf you spend your weekend like that, you'll be in a better position...
After that, you need to angulate as well. This is a conscious effort to lift your inside hip and effortfully counterbalance with both shoulders over the outside ski. - as in the photo above
cheers
p.s. if you work hard enough for a while, you will feel tired and pain in some muscles you didn't know you had... or had to use... so give it a rest a day or so before the exam. slow drills like Javelins on green are great for this
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I like Razie's suggestion to focus on balancing on one foot.
How is the snow in OR? It looks to still be holding up.
- Skiing from one outside ski to the other while lifting the inside ski off the snow (tail of ski up, let the tip just touch),
- Skiing on one leg only at a time (keep both skis on, but ski on the left ski for as many turns as you can, then switch to the other leg,
- one-thousand step turns where you literally lift one ski then the other successively while turning.
How is the snow in OR? It looks to still be holding up.
Thread Starter
TS
Thank you, Razie.
I always include in warm-up all Reilly's warm-up drills - stork and javelin turns dragging poles, etc, as well as one ski skiing, including pirouettes in both directions.
Today I started from mogul-type (closed legs) pivot and short radius turns, and turns with touching outside knee to inside leg (unfortunately resulted in A-frame on video) and inside boot heel to outside ankle, as you recommended.
But when I did that, I lost angulation
. Will try to do both touch and angulation tomorrow.I have time to relax before the exam - it's in the end of Jan.
Thread Starter
TS
Thanks, Jerry,
I will try tomorrow to implement in video your suggestions.
Snow is shrinking, and only top half of Palmer is skiable now. A bit icy 7-8am, fine till 11am at public, unsalted, lanes. At 11am racers gone, and their well salted lanes were OK till 1pm, when I left.
About your other notes see my reply to Razie.
It has probably already been mentioned so I'll just affirm it. Practice balancing against the outside ski with Javelin & Stork type turns:
That is all
That is all
It should be noted the top there is not easy to ski & it's wicked salted....
Do all of the outside ski stuff mentioned above, but get a little lower on the hill first.
Do all of the outside ski stuff mentioned above, but get a little lower on the hill first.
Whoever did the camerawork is the same guy that filmed the stuff we used for MA discussion here behind the Epic Curtain.
It has probably already been mentioned so I'll just affirm it. Practice balancing against the outside ski with Javelin & Stork type turns:
That is all
THIS
@alexz you mention it yourself that you sometimes lack a touch of balance and edge feel.
A couple of side slips followed by a simple 360 in each direction start of day (if you really want the feel, start of each run). Edge feel and balance in one quick drill. Once you've done enough it also does the adjustment for different setups and conditions in one quick drill.
This not to replace any drill, just a base reference point for everything else.
I was taught this sometime in my early life and 45 or so years later still use it for the same reason.
BTW this has lots of variation if you desire, but as a reference keep it simple and consistent.
A couple of side slips followed by a simple 360 in each direction start of day (if you really want the feel, start of each run). Edge feel and balance in one quick drill. Once you've done enough it also does the adjustment for different setups and conditions in one quick drill.
This not to replace any drill, just a base reference point for everything else.
I was taught this sometime in my early life and 45 or so years later still use it for the same reason.
BTW this has lots of variation if you desire, but as a reference keep it simple and consistent.
Thread Starter
TS
It should be noted the top there is not easy to ski & it's wicked salted....
View attachment 28171
Do all of the outside ski stuff mentioned above, but get a little lower on the hill first.
Now it is not skiable below the Palmer's mid station. We need to walk from top of Mile to the Palmer lift - no skiing to load Palmer at bottom. So no choice of terrain.
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