HUGE Powder Ski

[cantunamunch]

Shop guy told me that it's pointless since it's so late in the season.

WHAT? SERIOUSLY?

 

[Monique]

WHAT? SERIOUSLY?

Well, I mean, it was something like 50 degrees in Breckenridge when I dropped them off at 8am. He was just being grouchy.

 

[cantunamunch]

Well, I mean, it was something like 50 degrees in Breckenridge when I dropped them off at 8am. He was just being grouchy.

If techs around here got grouchy at 50F/8am they'd be fired by week after Christmas.

 

[Monique]

If techs around here got grouchy at 50F/8am they'd be fired by week after Christmas.

Oh, we just snark at each other. I'm in the shop a lot.

 

[cantunamunch]

Oh, we just snark at each other. I'm in the shop a lot.

Sure, I was just making a somewhat whiny indirect observation on the lack of true winter over here.

 

[Monique]

Sure, I was just making a somewhat whiny indirect observation on the lack of true winter over here.

We've had every season this winter.

 

[Tom K.]

In the end, both took their toll on my aging knees and kind of wore me out early. I considered replacing them with shorter versions of the same skis but im usually happy on my 112's.

I've got to agree on the knee thing, and this year, mine feel closer to the junkyard than ever.

But I'm still keeping an eye on the Liberty Genomes. They're at $580 with binders. If they slide to $530 in the next few weeks, I might pull the trigger.

But honestly, the rational side of my brain is waiting anxiously for some early reports on the new Enforcer Pros @ 115 mm.

 

[Jed Peters]

This would be a pretty damn good option.

https://forum.pugski.com/threads/2016-17-stockli-stormrider-115-185cm-with-salomon-sth2-16.4526/

 

[ski otter 2]

I've got to agree on the knee thing, and this year, mine feel closer to the junkyard than ever.

But I'm still keeping an eye on the Liberty Genomes. They're at $580 with binders. If they slide to $530 in the next few weeks, I might pull the trigger.

But honestly, the rational side of my brain is waiting anxiously for some early reports on the new Enforcer Pros @ 115 mm.

This may effect your take on the Genomes slightly.

Short version: Mea Culpa. I have to apologize to all. My Liberty Double Helixes are fixed, so for me there is more good reason for even a mistaken fellow like me to believe what Craig, the Vail Yellow Gentian reviewer, wrote so glowingly about the Liberty Double Helixes, and also, about the Genomes.

Plus in the Luv parking lot, I ran into the nice Liberty big mountain/powder video pro I rode with on the Pali lift a few years back, and got to discuss his current take on the fat Liberty skis at length - including both the Double Helix and the Genome. Also the Schuster Pro, the Origin 106 and 116, and the Libery Variant 113. He says that the Genomes are stupid easy to ski in powder. For him, he said, they make it too easy. He only uses them himself in deep snow. (Maybe more on this in a later post.)


I finally figured out what was wrong with my 182 Liberty Double Helixes 121, that skied like imbalanced tugboats. They were intermittently rail (edge) high or here and there concave, in an uneven way that I missed on such a fat ski, and failed to correct from the beginning, like I should have. Mea Culpa, again.

These are very good skis. Quick, light and responsive: the opposite of the way they were for me before.

I've worked the bases repeatedly now, and will fine-tune them at least once more, so not totally sure how they will end up.

I test drove them today on the final day at Loveland, once the snow had softened. Slarve and semi-slush bumps were beginning to surface. But also there were still uneven and rough crud bumps underneath that, so I can tell the Double Helixes are great in slush, but also in crud, uneven, semi-slush bumps, and on semi-slush groomers. They do not vibrate about like the Super 7s do in rough conditions. They hold a great edge carving. They can be flat based in the fall line fairly fast without chattering or getting tossed. Good stability in such conditions.

I just was so off about these skis because of the way my rail high versions acted, and now I've got another really great fat powder ski on my hands to figure out come next year!

These skis now handle as easy, lightweight, very responsive on edge and turning. They are now exactly like the various reviews, including especially the the DH review by Craig on Yellow Gentian.

To me, this means Craig is accurate on the Genomes.

I very much dropped the ball on this ski, so sorry. @givethepigeye was right about these skis too.

On such a fat ski, for me, it was hard to tell what was what with a straight edge. Few fat skis are actually straight-based. But these were rail high in a way that changed them drastically.

 

[Tom K.]

@ski otter 2, thanks for the update! I've exchanged a few emails with Craig, and he seems like a VERY straight shooter, so your re-review is another in the plus column.

I came so close to pulling the trigger on the Genomes, and the price has come down even a bit further, but it's hard to prioritize a ski purchase in May, so we'll see what next fall brings.

Thanks again.

 

[BoofHead]

I haven't read the whole thread so I don't know where your at but I'm 6'2. Normally range from 95kg/100kg. I did my first ever ski touring day on Libery Genomes. Sub optimal for the up, surfy and fun for the down ( deep Japow), not much fun inbounds heading home. I had one if my best days ever on a pair of 195 long Volkl Kuros (130+ underfoot) but still a bit over the top. I settled on a pair of Elan Boomerangs as my daily drivers for Japan. 190 long with 120 under foot. I personally think much wider than 120-125 is going past the point of diminishing returns.

 

[Craig@Vail]

@ski otter 2, thanks for the update! I've exchanged a few emails with Craig, and he seems like a VERY straight shooter, so your re-review is another in the plus column.

I came so close to pulling the trigger on the Genomes, and the price has come down even a bit further, but it's hard to prioritize a ski purchase in May, so we'll see what next fall brings.

Thanks again.

Had not seen this thread before.....thanks for the positive confirmation! I did a powder ski comparison on last years skis (2017-18), which is under my reviews at "Yellow Gentian Ski Reviews". The 187cm Genome was still at the top of the list, based on my profile, but I could easily (if you want lighter weight) substitute the Armada Tracer 118, or the DPS Lotus 124F. I believe this ski will work best for taller-larger skiers, due to its width, and weight. I am at 185lbs 6'1". The 187 is ideal (I am more finesse-bump skier than straight line high speed), as the pro stated earlier in this thread," it's super easy to ski". I usually jump from my Rossi 180cm 88hd or Rossi 167cm Hero St Ti to this ski, when we get 4 or more inches. I sold off my 98cm and 105cm skis, just didn't use them. My fourth season on the Genome, and it's seen a lot of days and bumps, not in any hurry to trade them in.
This ski is:
-very good damping and stability for a pow ski
-heavier
-soft flex
-rips pow bumps
-amazing float
-great carver for category
-loves high edge angles
-durable
-proper wax is essential due to surface area
-will punish you, for skidding your turns on chunder......

Craig@Vail

 

[jmeb]

Just because this thread got bumped again....

I spent more time on Praxis Protests courtsey of @Ron this spring. They were qualitatively different than any pow ski I'd skied prior: including lots of days of Bibbys, Lhasa pows, and demo days on many others. I am not that good of a skier, but in untouched pow I felt like a god. Turns of any shape, at any speed, slarves and powerslides like I was a way way better skier than I am. Maybe Ron just had some magic tune put on them. Or maybe the heavily tapered, almost completely Reverse-Reverse shape on them. Whatever it is, you can pull them from my cold dead hands.

Now -- do they make sense for most people. Absolutely not. Owning them only makes sense if you've got 3 or so other skis (groomer ski, daily driver ski, normal pow ski). Once things are heavily tracked out they are not as fun as something with a more traditional shape.

But if you get the opportunity to ski a bunch of untracked via cat skiing, an uncrowded resort, backcountry, heli, Japan, etc -- you owe it to yourself to try something of a similar shape -- mostly reverse sidecut reverse camber. They are also incredible in heavy spring pow, breakable crusts, or other funky conditions. I often spend the first 2 hours of any day over 6" on them. And then grab something a bit more normal out of the car. Even in my early 30s, those things can play havoc on my knees after a few hours.

 

[Mike Rogers]

Just because this thread got bumped again....

I spent more time on Praxis Protests courtsey of @Ron this spring. They were qualitatively different than any pow ski I'd skied prior: including lots of days of Bibbys, Lhasa pows, and demo days on many others. I am not that good of a skier, but in untouched pow I felt like a god. Turns of any shape, at any speed, slarves and powerslides like I was a way way better skier than I am. Maybe Ron just had some magic tune put on them. Or maybe the heavily tapered, almost completely Reverse-Reverse shape on them. Whatever it is, you can pull them from my cold dead hands.

Now -- do they make sense for most people. Absolutely not. Owning them only makes sense if you've got 3 or so other skis (groomer ski, daily driver ski, normal pow ski). Once things are heavily tracked out they are not as fun as something with a more traditional shape.

But if you get the opportunity to ski a bunch of untracked via cat skiing, an uncrowded resort, backcountry, heli, Japan, etc -- you owe it to yourself to try something of a similar shape -- mostly reverse sidecut reverse camber. They are also incredible in heavy spring pow, breakable crusts, or other funky conditions. I often spend the first 2 hours of any day over 6" on them. And then grab something a bit more normal out of the car. Even in my early 30s, those things can play havoc on my knees after a few hours.

I own (although not currently mounted) a pair of the original Praxis Powderboards. They are so much fun in the right conditions. I tried them out on breakable crust on day at Castle, and had a blast while everyone else was struggling. Interesting skis, but they didn't see enough snow.

 

[Ron]

@jmeb is correct on all accounts except he's a rippin' good skier. Dont let his modesty fool you however, the protest is the best powder ski for a big day bar non, hands down. Its just a totally different experience. I recall skiing those in tight evergreens on a honkin' stormin' knee deep day and was just pivoting through the trees and then taking them in the broken open where people were flailing everywhere and those bad-boys just ripped though the chunder like it was still fresh. I also had them up on Steamboat Powdercats on a breakable crust day and they just planed through it again while everyone was trying not to face plant or lose their ACL's.

 

[Brian Finch]

Still ski my Prototype BD megawatts @ 126mm underfoot

 

[Jim McDonald]

Sorry, I'm a little confused here. @Ron, @jmeb are you guys talking about the Protests or the Powderboards?
I had Protests, and they were not R/R. Thought maybe Keith had revamped, but just checked the website and:
It is a true hybrid powder ski, with some design traits borrowed from the Powderboards, and a little added sidecut and camber that make it easier to ski on hard snow.
Sounds like the skis that went from Ron to Jmeb are Powderboards, which would explain the R/R comments.
BTW, looks like Powderboards are now only a custom option, not listed among the Praxis standard models.

Protests were a hoot in anything from a couple of inches to untracked Niseko bowl skiing, but after a couple of seasons my ankles just couldn't take the return-to-lift runs anymore.

 

[Ron]

nope Protests. they were/are actually quite skiable inbounds. Maybe @jmeb can throw some Pics up.

 

[jmeb]

@Jim McDonald -- you're totally correct. They are not a true R/R. They however are...close. A good amount of tip and tail taper, very little sidecut and very minimal camber. They are, to my knowledge, as close to a R/R ski there is that isn't an actual R/R. While they share some similarities with 5-point designs with a lot of taper, their very short and very straight sidecut makes them ski quite differently (and more like an R/R) than something like say -- the Armada JJ or Rossi S7 or Fatypus IRock.

 

[Jim McDonald]

Oh yeah, i spent a day on JJs and they're nothing like the Protest!
Like I said, they were my sole ski for almost three seasons, back before the invasion at Niseko became more than the mountain can handle.
Loved'em, but had to move on. They're skiable in bounds, but not a lot of fun on hard groomers.