How to Get Rid of a Stem Habit

[skibob]

AmyPJ. It may have been stated, although I have read the entire thread. What boot do you ski?

I have exactly the same issues, but clearly to a lesser degree. Same leg even. I think mine stems from separating my ankle in HS (yes, separating, like pulling the joint apart, extremely uncommon injury to occur). Took a long time to recover from this and my right foot/lower leg alignment has never been the same.

Getting Fischer Vacuums (and having them baked and fitted) made a huge difference for me in terms of canting. Had to hold something between my knees to keep that right knee from dropping inward during the cooling time.

I also began riding a road bike again last summer. Ever since I've started using clipless pedals on the road bike I've noticed the alignment improving (if I am not tired) slightly. I think I am slowly strengthening muscles that had atrophied. I'm not suggesting that riding will ever eliminate the canting issues altogether, but definitely some improvement for me.

Like I said, your issues seem more severe than mine, but I thought I'd share my thoughts on the matter.

 

[AmyPJ]

Hi @skibob! Thanks for responding! I'm in 2016 Salomon XMax 90's, which are also heat moldable although not nearly as much as the Fischer Vacuums, I don't think. I am actually thinking I need to have them reheated next week with an emphasis on keeping my right leg pushed "outward" to help that cuff align better. Hoping to get a lesson tomorrow with my favorite instructor who can get more video of me skiing right next to me. I'll be able to share that with my boot fitter as I think I am facing both a length discrepancy (my lateral tibia IS in fact 3mm shorter than the other one thanks to my fracture) and a tibial alignment issue.

FWIW, I mountain biked all summer and put a huge emphasis on engaging my glutes and hamstrings. I know I should also get into PT or to a chiro to try to straighten my pelvis out, but honestly, I've been this way since my teens so I'm not sure how much good it will do.

 

[AmyPJ]

The on-hill professional photographer snapped some shots of me skiing down a little steepish roller yesterday. I want to cry. And smile, so much is good, yet that right leg, it just rolls in next to or behind the left no matter which direction I'm turning! I have a horrible time releasing my left turns, horrible time ENGAGING my left turns, just a horrible time with anything that has to do with my right leg/foot. The right leg, if I try to roll the knee out a bit, the ski feels like it's going to shoot out from under me. And on most turns, I can never balance over that ski at all.

Any ideas??

At least my stance is good! And I'm smiling, because skiing is just fun!

 

[Monique]

At least my stance is good! And I'm smiling, because skiing is just fun!

Dude, ease up! If I had a photo of me skiing that looked like this, I would be thrilled!

As my instructor said yesterday - "You wouldn't talk to yourself like you talk to yourself. You wouldn't talk to anyone like that."

 

[mdf]

Those pictures are interesting. I'm thinking your "stem" may not really be a stem at all. In a stem, you put your weight on the new inside ski and step the new outside ski into the new orientation. It looks like your new outside ski may be turning properly, but the new inside ski is failing to come along with it. That is a whole different thing.

 

[bbinder]

Amy,
I struggle with my knees tilting towards each other as well. Here is what works for me: in the pictures above, I would tilt/tip the right foot towards the little toe edge more (resulting in my right knee 'rolling outward'), while pulling back on that foot to resist the 'shooting out in front of me'. Release the edge of the left ski by consciously relaxing, flexing, and tipping/tilting the left foot towards the little toe edge and then pull back the foot as the inside edge of the right ski is engaging. Rinse and Repeat. The usual caveat for this is that I am not an instructor and I defer to any instructor who contradicts me...

 

[AmyPJ]

Those pictures are interesting. I'm thinking your "stem" may not really be a stem at all. In a stem, you put your weight on the new inside ski and step the new outside ski into the new orientation. It looks like your new outside ski may be turning properly, but the new inside ski is failing to come along with it. That is a whole different thing.

Yes, I had one instructor refer to it as a "step". Why, why why?? Is it all because the tibia is tracking inside/medially so much on my right leg?? When I try to purposefully open that knee to get that little toe edge engaged, I feel myself falling backward. Is it because that leg/side is possibly 5mm shorter?

Dude, ease up! If I had a photo of me skiing that looked like this, I would be thrilled!

As my instructor said yesterday - "You wouldn't talk to yourself like you talk to yourself. You wouldn't talk to anyone like that."

Well, I do love that last pic for sure! And I skied FAST yesterday--hit 39mph which is a new record for me, and I have no idea when I did, I feel so in control on these skis! But that right knee that just won't stay out, and it messes with my control on left turns, it's really frustrating! Honestly, if I felt like my turns were solid on that leg, I'd not give a crap. But I never feel like I'm in control on left turns, especially in rougher snow. Yet I can stand on my left ski during right turns and maintain balance and control very well.

And you know I'm a perfectionist and I know you are one, too And I'm used to watching my horse videos, critiquing myself, changing things up and VOILA! Fixed! Not so with this skiing stuff. It just doesn't come naturally to me.

 

[AmyPJ]

Amy,
I struggle with my knees tilting towards each other as well. Here is what works for me: in the pictures above, I would tilt/tip the right foot towards the little toe edge more (resulting in my right knee 'rolling outward'), while pulling back on that foot to resist the 'shooting out in front of me'. Release the edge of the left ski by consciously relaxing, flexing, and tipping/tilting the left foot towards the little toe edge and then pull back the foot as the inside edge of the right ski is engaging. Rinse and Repeat. The usual caveat for this is that I am not an instructor and I defer to any instructor who contradicts me...

The one thing I haven't been doing is pulling the leg back actively. When I roll that right knee outward to get it on the LTE, I feel like it stands me up WAY too tall. I can't explain why. If I ONLY focus on rolling onto the little toe, nothing happens. The magic happens for me when I focus on the knee.

Now, I will say, I've been trying to pull that right leg back at turn release from right turns AND keeping it back when initiating and IN my left turns. It's helpful but still not great. I think I need to focus on pulling it back ALL THE TIME.
This is great feedback, I appreciate it!

If I can clean up my right turn entry, I would think it would help me hold and balance those turns much better.

 

[Monique]

The one thing I haven't been doing is pulling the leg back actively. When I roll that right knee outward to get it on the LTE, I feel like it stands me up WAY too tall. I can't explain why. If I ONLY focus on rolling onto the little toe, nothing happens. The magic happens for me when I focus on the knee.

Here's a weird one. I think I've been focusing too much on my feet and knees trying to fix my "lazy" inside leg. In my private lesson yesterday, we worked a lot on turn initiation by moving the CoM forward and to the inside of the turn, rather than using the lower legs. I have a hell of a time separating twisting the hip from initiating properly with the hip. I'll write it up in my ski diva thread when I get the chance. Anyway, I think all my fixation on what my legs were doing was working on a symptom, not a cause. She described hips vs knees as being like - well, like an old fashioned TV, which I think I've only seen in movies. You use the primary dial (hips) to initiate the turn, and then the fine tuning dial (knees) to adjust. If you start with the feet/knees, your body gets locked in and you don't have any way to fine tune the turn if you need to change it, so that's when the upper body gets involved.

Possibly nothing to do with you, but it was interesting to realize that just because I saw a problem in one place didn't mean that's where I needed to fix it - and in fact I think my focus on my feet may have doubled down on the issue.

 

[AmyPJ]

Here's a weird one. I think I've been focusing too much on my feet and knees trying to fix my "lazy" inside leg. In my private lesson yesterday, we worked a lot on turn initiation by moving the CoM forward and to the inside of the turn, rather than using the lower legs. I have a hell of a time separating twisting the hip from initiating properly with the hip. I'll write it up in my ski diva thread when I get the chance. Anyway, I think all my fixation on what my legs were doing was working on a symptom, not a cause. She described hips vs knees as being like - well, like an old fashioned TV, which I think I've only seen in movies. You use the primary dial (hips) to initiate the turn, and then the fine tuning dial (knees) to adjust. If you start with the feet/knees, your body gets locked in and you don't have any way to fine tune the turn if you need to change it, so that's when the upper body gets involved.

Possibly nothing to do with you, but it was interesting to realize that just because I saw a problem in one place didn't mean that's where I needed to fix it - and in fact I think my focus on my feet may have doubled down on the issue.

That is a really interesting way to think about it. I will be skiing with 3 eight year olds on Monday. I think it'll be a GREAT day to work on some of this feely feely stuff, especially since they will ski all over the mountain now, and not just the bunny hill. Yaay! When left to my own devices, I just want to GO!

 

[Monique]

That is a really interesting way to think about it. I will be skiing with 3 eight year olds on Monday. I think it'll be a GREAT day to work on some of this feely feely stuff, especially since they will ski all over the mountain now, and not just the bunny hill. Yaay! When left to my own devices, I just want to GO!

Even after a full day of working on it, I am having a lot of trouble self-identifying the right hip movements. We would stop and I would try to get into the "go" position, and then Jenn would have to fix me. If you have access to your own shadow, you can use it to make sure that knees, hips, shoulders, goggles (okay, not goggles in the shadow) are all in alignment.

I must have gotten some of it right, because the muscles that are sore today are different from my usual sore muscles!

 

[bbinder]

The one thing I haven't been doing is pulling the leg back actively. When I roll that right knee outward to get it on the LTE, I feel like it stands me up WAY too tall. I can't explain why. If I ONLY focus on rolling onto the little toe, nothing happens. The magic happens for me when I focus on the knee.

Now, I will say, I've been trying to pull that right leg back at turn release from right turns AND keeping it back when initiating and IN my left turns. It's helpful but still not great. I think I need to focus on pulling it back ALL THE TIME.
This is great feedback, I appreciate it!

If I can clean up my right turn entry, I would think it would help me hold and balance those turns much better.

Is it possible that you are extending the right knee as you are rolling it out? I feel like the right knee and foot in the first picture should be tipped/tilted to the outside more AND the leg should be flexed more.

 

[Josh Matta]

The one thing I haven't been doing is pulling the leg back actively. When I roll that right knee outward to get it on the LTE, I feel like it stands me up WAY too tall. I can't explain why. If I ONLY focus on rolling onto the little toe, nothing happens. The magic happens for me when I focus on the knee.

Now, I will say, I've been trying to pull that right leg back at turn release from right turns AND keeping it back when initiating and IN my left turns. It's helpful but still not great. I think I need to focus on pulling it back ALL THE TIME.
This is great feedback, I appreciate it!

If I can clean up my right turn entry, I would think it would help me hold and balance those turns much better.

If you only focus on the edging move you will end up balance on your inside ski which is place you do not want to be beside some drills....

Inside foot will tip
Inside leg will flex(bend shorten)
Inside ski will get lighter.

If all three of those things do not happen progressively and at the same time you end up steming, down steming, or to much balance on your inside ski.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Those are some nice pictures. It's interesting to me that in pictures 1 and 2 the inside ski looks the same. The stem looks like a downstem the legs are coming farther apart and the ski is rotating in. Doesn't seem so much like the right leg is the problem. Anyway, you asked for advice, my advice is you've taken a lot of lessons and not fixed this. Alignment hasn't worked. Maybe it's your body. I'd try this - http://www.rolfing.org I'm very skeptical about that kind of thing, but I do think that with a good practitioner it can help you. For me personally, after two sessions I pulled all the cants out of my boots and no longer needed them.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Nice photos and not bad at all. This is one of those comfort issues on how to roll the skis and let the edges transition from one to the next things without taking that little step to get it started.

It is a bunch of little things, balance, timing, confidence and just a touch of technique (the mind knows what it wants but your body doesn't know how to get there).

Try this.

On a really gentle hill run some railway tracks and just roll side to side on the edges. As this feels comfortable, add a little forward and backward pressure on the skis. Play with it. Done right you will feel (and see on the tracks) the float through the transition. Done wrong you'll either step or stop, don't forget this on a really gentle slope so speed and gravity won't hide the error. Ideally it is really good if you can look at your tracks as they will tell you a lot about what you are doing and when......Tracks don't lie.

You'll find once you have this, start picking up the speed and shortly your skis will be kicking you in and out of the turns with a mind of their own, all you have to do is smile, hang on and let them go.

AFTER THOUGHT....One thing I believe in is that you should be able to do slow what you do at speed. If you can't there is an error in what you are doing from the start. Speed and gravity hide a bunch of things as they can pull you through. Having neither will force you ski right or stop the moment you make an error.

 

[AmyPJ]

Man, so much to think about! Everything sounds valid, too. All of it. That's what's so frustrating. The ONE thing that stands out to me is that railroad tracks on flats are nearly impossible for me. I work on them a LOT. You are right, @oldschoolskier, gravity hides a lot! It's always the right foot/boot. It just isn't...right. I can never get enough edge pressure on it, and on steeps, it washes out badly, which of course makes me very defensive. I am wondering if I need more medial canting on that boot to help get it on edge earlier, especially considering how that tibia tracks medially, too.

The left foot/leg, I don't even give a second thought. It just works effortlessly. The right one I have to work HARD, it gets way more fatigued early season, and is the only side that gets tired and sore. And my right leg is my dominant leg, so it should be just the opposite. Except, I did have that tibial plateau fracture in it last season...so, yes @epic, I am pretty crooked, but I have been for a long time. I think the injury has magnified it, though.

 

[Tom K.]

Except, I did have that tibial plateau fracture in it last season...

Not a technique tip, but perhaps you are still healing a bit, and your body is still subconsciously protecting that leg, no matter what you think you're telling it.

Keep thinking about it this season, but don't obsess. Have fun (nice smile!). I bet it goes away next season.

 

[SBrown]

I have a wonky right leg. I stopped caring. It worked.

 

[AmyPJ]

Not a technique tip, but perhaps you are still healing a bit, and your body is still subconsciously protecting that leg, no matter what you think you're telling it.

Keep thinking about it this season, but don't obsess. Have fun (nice smile!). I bet it goes away next season.

Highly possible. The injury site does still hurt especially in more difficult snow. I don't feel it until I stop, but it's there...and chairlifts without footrests are no bueno this year.
The biggest problem is it's making me NOT enjoy skiing as much. It's holding me back because I have very little confidence in left turns. I'm going to keep working on turn initiation and overall right ski balance to see if I can improve those turns at least 50%. And I'll try to keep having fun regardless (Saying TIC, of course.)

I guess I still think some bootwork could assist a bit. I honestly could care less except that the turns feel SO vastly different, with my left turns feeling mostly not in very much control. I mean, that ski slides side-to-side with me being unable to lock it into the turn at least 50% of the time. And it's frankly scary.

 

[oldschoolskier]

Years ago (about 37) broke the tiba playing soccer and it was never aligned correctly, so the ankle and knee are definitely out of alignment. While any number of corrections can help, it does take a bit of time to build up strength so that you are back to normal.

Just work on rolling side to side, it will get there. Confidence is a big thing don't under rate it as it a background issue that is hard to see. Just keep working at it and all of a sudden you'll realize the skiing issue is gone (unless you'll got some serious help and support it can take a couple of years, don't worry about it. By the time it's corrected you have mastered this and several other skills (because of it) and be that much better.