Having looked at Bob's video again, I think Marcel needs to change his name to something more Germanic like 'Johann' or 'Siegfried'. Skiing wise, he could use more 'lean back and wiggle'....
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How it's done...Hirscher
- Thread starter Bob Barnes
- Start date
That's something being emphasised over here as well. Perhaps not those exact words -- but push that outside hip forward.
Not everyone needs more inside hip lead. What happened to being aligned? You can overdo/underdo anything. That's the problem with these mantras....
Mike
Mike
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- Dec 21, 2015
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The outside hip being pushed forward would be waist steering.....
No, not nesecerily, it's to put pressure on the outside ski. As I've understod, widely taught to racers now. I'm in Sweden (surprise!), Europe and what did James say it was called in the US, hip to the tip?
Not officially as far as I know, but indeed many coaches use it. I'm not particularly fond of it in general, but it works for some athletes.
My first post here, but I think many recognize me from epic.
So two Swedes hear now. Welcome Jämt! So what's official? All the 'higher' level coaches we've had in our club (Huddinge) has been talking about pushing the outside (downhill) side into the turn. Some with recent national team level experience from Norway and Sweden. Also what I've heard on camps with Stockholm Ski Federation from coaches. Where are you based Jämt? Åre?
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If you are talking about Mr Nordlund I'm a bit surprised because I have not heard him say that before, quite the contrary since one of his mantras are "finish the turn facing down". What it is really about is proper fore-aft but pushing the outside forward can really have different effects, one being too square to the skis. Like I said, it works for some individuals, but its not something I would coach as an "absolute" to a group.
I was with the national team in BR last week and some of the guys were working on getting rid of too much early counter, but not by pushing the outside forward. They are already forward and strong. On the other hand, If an individual drops the hip back and down we have a different situation.
Also interesting is that now when the GS skis go from 35 to 30 I think we will see less emphasis on fore and more on clean entries.
I don't have the overview, but earlier in this thread 'hip to tip' was mentioned. It resembled something I too had heard during the past seasons with my daughters teams various coaches. I guess as always, instruction really needs to be put in a context, otherwise it can be confusing or misleading. I'm pretty sure Jörgen wouldn't teach anything as an absolute. Hold on a minute, he would!
Wasn't thinking of him, but he certainly talked about something very similar to 'hip to tip' in 15/16 with my daughters group (U14 then) who was training on going straighter with a more aggressive turn. However, I recall that he also was meticulous about keeping up the inner arm! I've heard a few others talk about pushing the outside in to the turn as well after that. Perhaps my daughters squad has special needs...Anyways, what I find interesting, is that it sounds so completely the opposite of what I often hear in discussions, just like razies comment above. Could be semantics. But pushing the outside (lifting the inside) to create more pressure do make sense to me. I too was in BR last wekend
^^^^so maybe we have some confusion here? Some are taking "pushing the outside hip into the turn" to mean rotating the pelvis into the direction of the turn, hence Josh's waiststeering reference, but from what you just wrote it sounds like you are describing hip angulation, as in, moving the hips inside the path of the skis while moving over the outside ski with the upper body....pushing the hips into the turn could be viewed in this way...
zenny
zenny
Semantics need to be in place. I'm just translating, not familiar with what it's described like in the US but what you say makes a lot of sense.
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What doesn't make a ton of sense to me is "pushing the outside hip into the outside ski" - what are you pushing it from?
When you lift the inside hip, it is lifted leveraging off of the outside ski, so it ads pressure. but what can you push into the outside hip to add pressure to the outside ski?
Anyways, if that's what you meant, now we know
To see where I'm coming from, I was at a karate camp a while ago and it was about punching. And I had a mean punch because I was pushing on the ground correctly, through the hip and core into the punch. But that's the opposite of pushing downwards with the hip - I was pushing the hip against the ground and the punch against the hip, so that kind of pushing makes sense - pushing the hip upwards and/or forwards.
Not sure what can we leverage to push into the ski with the outside hip? The inside hip? Then I would just say "lift the inside hip"... you can only lift it if you leverage against the ground via the outside ski. Otherwise it's a technical mistake, heh
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It's getting the outside involved. Perhaps the correct description is hip angulation, but directly translated it would sound like "get the hip forward" or "push with the hip". After you get the knees in, the hip follows.
As I said, it might be confusing to lift one instruction out of a context, but the "hip to tip" comment (nothing I have invented or even heard irl) or the sentiment of it, is something I have picked up too from a a few different coaches. Maybe it's just for special cases like Jamt suggested or it really should be called hip angulation like Zennie said. To me it makes sense.
As I said, it might be confusing to lift one instruction out of a context, but the "hip to tip" comment (nothing I have invented or even heard irl) or the sentiment of it, is something I have picked up too from a a few different coaches. Maybe it's just for special cases like Jamt suggested or it really should be called hip angulation like Zennie said. To me it makes sense.
Hmm - yeah, it is somewhat confusing... it seems to be more about fore/aft i.e. getting forward ? Hip to tip sounds more like dorsiflexion and long leg.
Lifting the inside hip, hip angulation are about lateral, allowing more angles and getting more pressure on the outside ski.
But neither seems to be about driving the skis with the hips or pushing the hips into the turn (i.e. rotation).
Lifting the inside hip, hip angulation are about lateral, allowing more angles and getting more pressure on the outside ski.
But neither seems to be about driving the skis with the hips or pushing the hips into the turn (i.e. rotation).
Fwiw, I've heard outside hip to new inside ski tip.. It'll be interesting to see what changes the new 30m skis will bring. Anyhow, really nice to see you guys here! (Razie, Jamt, Swede, Zenny)
