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How it's done...Hirscher

Bob Barnes

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With the FIS 2017 World Cup Finals about to begin at Aspen, Marcel Hirscher and a small handful of other competitors came to neighboring Aspen Highlands for some giant slalom training today--March 13, 2017. Here's a look at Hirscher, who has already clinched his record-breaking sixth Overall World Cup title for the season:


The hill is moderately steep right out of the start, becoming quite flat with manmade rollers near the camera. Snow was firm, despite the warm weather, and light was overcast and flat.

Enjoy!

Best regards,
Bob
 
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Ken_R

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Wow. Speed, Power, Flow, very very smooth as well. Wow.
 

markojp

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That guy's a pro? I'm soooo much better at not being as good!
 

James

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Thanks for posting Bob!
Thunder Bowl?
Aspen Highlands has the most skiing for advanced skiers per acre of size. And you get wcup skiers!

What do you think of the "hip to tip" slogan? Move the uphill hip to downhill ski tip mantra that seems to be the latest in the east anyway.
 

Mike King

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We had 7 World Cup teams running slalom and GS at Snowmass yesterday. I only got to see the Slovenians and Italians free skiing, but wow! Unfortunately, I have to work this week so won't get to see the races
 

markojp

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We had 7 World Cup teams running slalom and GS at Snowmass yesterday. I only got to see the Slovenians and Italians free skiing, but wow! Unfortunately, I have to work this week so won't get to see the races

I've always thought it was more useful to watch WC'ers free ski than race. IMHO of course.
 

Lorenzzo

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Really enjoy watching Hirscher's initiation, knee action and pressure at the apex.
 

oldschoolskier

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Looking at the video it is interesting to see the change in how he skis compared to 3-4 years ago. A lot smoother.

Fast then, faster now.

I am always impressed when you see anyone who you think is at their peak, get better. Seeing it happen is not impressive, however seeing it as snippets in time it highlights the improvements and always seems impressive.
 

Muleski

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Bob posted the video in the race forum as well. Really great! Thanks again.

A few comments over there, too. Much like Marko's. Watching these guys free ski, or train in a situation like this is just beautiful. Somebody described actual race day as a "rock fight" when the skiing is a LOT uglier for a variety of reasons. Yet it is the thousands of hours of training in a variety of situations and on a variety of surfaces that make fighting it possible.

My daughter is quite involved in the WCF, and in working with a number of the national teams. They love skiing in CO, as long as things do not get too warm. The surface that they have had to train on has been great. Nothing but praise for Aspen SkiCo and AVSC.

So you get to see the kind of skiing that Bob captured on his video. Wow.

I don't personally think that Hirscher's skiing has changed all that much in recent years. His GS has become faster and more consistently so. Truth is that if you were to ask him, he would be very humble and say little. Ask his coaches, and they would say three things. He is stronger and more fit than ever. He still works as hard as anybody on the WC. And perhaps most importantly, his skis are SO much better than his early 35M skis. They really enable the smooth dynamic skiing that we see here.

I first saw Hirscher skiing, free skiing, when he was about 17, at his first Junior Worlds. It was very clear that he was already exceptional. He was at the top of his game shortly thereafter. The guy has always been a rocket.
Much like many people will say about a young Ms.Shiffrin. Watch her free skiing "with a purpose" if you ever get a chance. Just beautiful. Has been since she was quite young.

Of course the "look" of the skiing changes on race day, based on the hill and terrain, the course set, the deterioration of the surface, and other variables. Much, much more so for the guys. It gets ugly and Hirscher, the competitor that he is just fights through it.

But watching any of these guys free ski, and training in a rythmic course like this...just beautiful. Watching the women is equally impressive, IME. The power, precision, speed is incredible.

Great video. Thanks again for it, Bob.
 

Muleski

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Cool video. 2007 was his first Junior Worlds. I think he was about to turn 18. I know he was pretty young. He won the GS. Two weeks later he was on the WC. The next year he won both the SL and GS. Decisively. He was pulled out of the WC for his third Jr. Worlds and the expectation was that he would destroy the field. Nope. I think he was sick, but the surprise of that year was the GS winner. A 17 year old French kid, Pinturault.

As I recall, Hirscher was also part of the Austrian World Champs team that year. And what...three years later won his first overall?

He's been amazing all the way.....I hope he sticks with it for a few more years.
 
Thread Starter
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Bob Barnes

Bob Barnes

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Well, now that summer is starting to set in in the northern hemisphere, and the World Cup Finals have come and gone (Hirscher won the Giant Slalom shortly after these training runs, and took home the crystal globes for a record-breaking sixth consecutive overall title, as well as the season's GS and Slalom titles.)

Here are some questions for discussion, based on PSIA's current "Five Fundamentals" (of which I am not necessarily a big fan):

1. How (with what movements) does Hirscher "control the relationship of the Center of Mass to the base of support to direct pressure along the length of the skis," and what is the outcome? (How is pressure distributed, fore-aft, in each turn phase? How much, and where in the turns, does he "bend his boots"? Why? How can you tell? How do external forces, inertia, and momentum apply?)

2. How does he "control pressure from ski to ski and direct pressure toward the outside ski," and what is the outcome? (How much pressure is on each ski in each part of the turn? When, and at what rate, does the pressure "transfer" from ski to ski? When, if ever, is the pressure "50:50"?

3. How does Hirscher use "a combination of inclination and angulation" to control edge angles throughout the turns? Where in the turns are his edge angles highest? Lowest? Are they the same for each ski? (Definitions: note that I use "inclination" to describe the leaning of the center of mass into a turn for balance, and "angulation" to describe the more-or-less lateral angles of the ankles, knees, hips, and spine that skiers can use to adjust the angle beyond that from inclination alone. Both movements also affect ski-to-ski pressure and balance, and both apply simultaneously--they are not "opposites" or "alternatives." Inclination with no angulation has traditionally been called "banking." The amount we tip our skis from horizontal--the "tipping angle"--is the degree of inclination + the degree of angulation. The edge angle on the snow incorporates tipping angle plus or minus the angle of the slope--in the top half of the turn, the slope angle reduces the edge angle; in the bottom half, slope angle increases edge angle.)

4. Does he, and if so, how does he "control the skis' rotation (turning, pivoting, steering) with leg rotation, separate from the upper body"? To what extent do these muscular movements apply during different parts of the turn? What is their effect? Does he use other mechanisms that DO involve the upper body as well? How can you tell?

5. How does he "regulate the magnitude of pressure created through ski/snow interaction"? What are the forces involved? When do they take place? What does he do (what movements) to manage these forces? (Note that in this case, "pressure" equates simply to total force--not to the distribution of the force--fore-aft, side-to-side, or over an area.) How does Hirscher use these forces to accomplish his desired purposes and intents?

---

What else is going on? How does he use his poles? How does he "get forward"? How do the movements of the "five fundamentals" combine and blend in direction, time, and effect? How does what I've called "The Infinity Move" apply here? What are Hirscher's tactics and line choices? What are his "default movements," and what movements represent situational exceptions?

Here's the Infinity Move clip again, for reference:


Best regards,
Bob
 
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Thread Starter
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Bob Barnes

Bob Barnes

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Hi Mike--I do wish Vimeo provided that functionality, as YouTube now does. Perhaps soon....

Meanwhile, the second half of the Hirscher video shows slow-motion highlights.

Best,
Bob
 
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Bob Barnes

Bob Barnes

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Here's another clip of some of the World Cup skiers training at Aspen Highlands: Melanie Meillard and Simone Wild of Switzerland in a consistent, rhythmic panel gate slalom course, training for the Alpine Team event.


Compared with "regular" single-pole slalom, this style of slalom may be much easier for many skiers to connect to regular recreational skiing. Turns are regular and consistent, with minimal rhythm changes, and because the double-pole panel gates are more substantial, they have to actually ski around them, rather than driving right over them. So no full slalom armor, no cross-blocking. (Have you ever tried cross-blocking a tree? Probably not, if you're reading this!)

Once again, what really jumps out at me is the rapid, uninterrupted movement of their feet and skis across the hill in the turn transitions, as their feet move farther across (and faster across) the hill than their bodies, and their bodies take a shortcut down the hill to get "ahead of" their feet in preparation for the next shaping/pressure phase. Another clear demonstration of The Infinity Move!

Enjoy!

Best regards,
Bob
 
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