Gear Heavy vs. Light AT Setups

[Monique]

I'm on my third pair of AT boots and have toured maybe 10 days ever. My issue with AT boots is not performance, but fit. They all seem to suck. In retrospect, maybe I should have kept my first pair. If I can't make the current ones work, I'll probably have to give up on the idea of skinning.

 

[Doug Briggs]

You make an interesting point. You can have the lightest gear but if it doesn't feel or work right, are you going to enjoy using it?

 

[Tico]

I really don't understand this "tech bindings and touring boots don't ski well" sentiment. Check the videos of hoji on tlt5's. And personally I've never felt limited by them. Then again I almost never use a resort setup, so maybe I've just adjusted.

 

[Snowflake2420]

I'm on my third pair of AT boots and have toured maybe 10 days ever. My issue with AT boots is not performance, but fit. They all seem to suck. In retrospect, maybe I should have kept my first pair. If I can't make the current ones work, I'll probably have to give up on the idea of skinning.

My first pair of touring boots were Black Diamond Shivas I got for cheap and they just simply didn't fit my feet. I don't know how I could stand them honestly. This last time I went for Scarpa Freedoms (the ones made from polyurethane vs. pebax) and had them professionally fitted. The Freedoms are basically an alpine boot, but with a good range of walk mode and much lighter weight. Coming from alpine boots, I've been really happy with how they ski in-bounds and they work well for my purposes when I do tour.

 

[Doug Briggs]

I really don't understand this "tech bindings and touring boots don't ski well" sentiment. Check the videos of hoji on tlt5's. And personally I've never felt limited by them. Then again I almost never use a resort setup, so maybe I've just adjusted.

For me, the bad rep is primarily anecdotal. I saw too many pin bindings release, even in walk mode, to have confidence in them in the past. Additionally the release mechanisms have been less reliable than traditional bindings. I waited until the Kingpin to get in the pin game because it is designed for a reliable release, which I've verified to my satisfaction with the Vermont Calibrator.

Touring boots that I have tried have not had the same degree of support as alpine boots; not even close. Until I got into the XT FreeTour. I typically could fold the boot forward and never got the type of support from the back seat that I desired.

Hoji is a remarkable pro athlete and can probably compensate for the shortcoming of boots with muscular strength. Mere mortals likely require more support from the boot him.

The guy in the green pants fell because his pin binding released:

This is proof of nothing but illustrates where the bad rep came from.

 

[Monique]

My first pair of touring boots were Black Diamond Shivas I got for cheap and they just simply didn't fit my feet. I don't know how I could stand them honestly. This last time I went for Scarpa Freedoms (the ones made from polyurethane vs. pebax) and had them professionally fitted. The Freedoms are basically an alpine boot, but with a good range of walk mode and much lighter weight. Coming from alpine boots, I've been really happy with how they ski in-bounds and they work well for my purposes when I do tour.

Yeah, and the two Scarpas I've tried have tortured my feet. I'm told my foot would be great in a BD, but they're no longer on the market (not that I actually *know* the BD would be good).

I bought a Fischer heat-moldable AT boot after falling in love with my Fischer heat-moldable alpine boot. But the AT boot has not been the wondrous experience that the alpine boot has been. That being said - I think it's the pressure the uphill travel puts on the balls of my feet. I haven't traveled uphill in my alpine boots this season.

The guy in the green pants fell because his pin binding released:

I remember years ago, watching someone drop into a "steep" bump run from the top. Well, drop was the right word. Somehow his skis stayed put, and he went tumbling.

Would have loved to know the DIN on that one.

 

[cantunamunch]

I bought a Fischer heat-moldable AT boot after falling in love with my Fischer heat-moldable alpine boot. But the AT boot has not been the wondrous experience that the alpine boot has been. That being said - I think it's the pressure the uphill travel puts on the balls of my feet. I haven't traveled uphill in my alpine boots this season..

Same footbeds? Do you use the heel lifts?

 

[Monique]

Same footbeds? Do you use the heel lifts?

Different footbeds, molded by same person in same season. Don't recall about heel lifts.

To be fair, when I walk up to the condo for several minutes in my alpine boots, I start feeling some unpleasant things in my forefoot. So this may not so much be solved in my alpine boots as "not an issue" for my alpine behaviors.

 

[cantunamunch]

Different footbeds, molded by same person in same season.

Aha.

Don't recall about heel lifts.

You know I meant the binding accessory/configuration, not the thing in the boot, yes?

To be fair, when I walk up to the condo for several minutes in my alpine boots, I start feeling some unpleasant things in my forefoot. So this may not so much be solved in my alpine boots as "not an issue" for my alpine behaviors.

Precisely why I ask.

 

[Monique]

You know I meant the binding accessory/configuration, not the thing in the boot, yes?

OOOOH do you mean risers?

 

[cantunamunch]

OOOOH do you mean risers?

Yeh (assuming your binding has them instead of just twisting around). I mean I call them 'posts' but same diff.

Talikng of light weight setups:

 

[Monique]

Yeh (assuming your binding has them instead of just twisting around). I mean I call them 'posts' but same diff.

My Fritschis have three different heights. But I don't think that's strictly speaking the issue. Using them also aggravates my knee more, which I hope is temporary.

 

[cantunamunch]

But I don't think that's strictly speaking the issue.

Perhaps; it was, however, going to be my starting point until I read:

Using them also aggravates my knee more, which I hope is temporary.

which I find absolutely fascinating, in a 'Hey! Science Project! How is using climbing posts similar to doing low squats?'' way.

 

[Monique]

Perhaps; it was, however, going to be my starting point until I read:

Using them also aggravates my knee more, which I hope is temporary.

which I find absolutely fascinating, in a 'Hey! Science Project! How isusing climbing posts similar to doing low squats?'' way.

I think you end up bending your knees more and putting more pressure on them. It's more like a step up than a shuffle. (It's NOT like a step up, just MORE like it ...)

 

[pais alto]

Talikng of light weight setups:

Got a picture of the skins for that rig?

 

[cantunamunch]

Got a picture of the skins for that rig?

Beyond what's visible already (behind the boots)? Not in the phone - if you like I can dig them up and take one.

 

[pais alto]

Beyond what's visible already (behind the boots)? Not in the phone - if you like I can dig them up and take one.

Ah, I didn't notice those in that picture. F'n awesome, carry on.

 

[Rainbow Jenny]

I have experience with some backcountry skiing on both frame and tech bindings. I'm a petite woman, 31, 5' 2". I have a trip to Argentina later this year and am thinking about getting a setup I'd feel confident with some in-bounds skiing, but primarily for backcountry and touring as that's a big part of the trip.

I currently ski the Nordica La Nina very often in-bounds and have been impressed with how well it handles non-powder conditions and therefore am considering them as a candidate with some Marker Kingpins as my one touring set up.

However, I found a pair of DPS Yvette Pure3 with Dynafit Radical ST Demos (basically never used). The Yvettes have a very similar shape to the La Nina from what I can tell, but lighter and stiffer. I'm going to try and demo them if I can.

My question is where is the dividing line between what makes a "heavy" AT set up? In comparing my two choices, it comes out to about a 2 pound difference with the skis, will I really notice? Am I crazy to even ask. Perhaps I don't want to accept my La Ninas are so much heavier haha.

La Nina set up comes out to 18.95 LBs vs. Yvette set up of 16.5. This includes my Scarpa Freedom Boots.

Would you care to share where in the world you reside/generally ski? And tell us more about your Argentina trip as @Monique asked so I can live vicariously...or get a better sense of what you'll be facing. I wonder if a road bike or ultra-lightweight backpack analogy is appropriate... how much difference does 2 pounds really make?

I still need to read all the postings carefully to pick up learning points. Thanks for posting your questions, thought I'd share my limited experience. You sound much more experienced than I bc. Prior to 2016-17, I had 5 days over 5 seasons but so far have had 15 short days this seasons. Do take my comments with the above caveat.

Out of curiosity, I put my gear on a bathroom digital scale (in kg but will convert to imperial to compare against yours).
I'm 5"4" 115#, Dynafit Mercury 24.5 (6 lbs) + (G3 Zest 166 w/speed radical)= 15.4 lb, +(Voile Vector BC 160 w/Vipec 12) = 14.3lb

I don't appreciate the one pound difference at all, but not needing to put on skins on the new Voile setup (patterned/scaled) two weeks ago around Mammoth was thrilling and I absolutely LOVED the fast and simple transition from walk to ski mode using my pole.

I demo'ed @Tricia's Zelda 106 Alchemist (which I understand replaces Pure3 next season) at Whistler resort...didn't know what to do with the skis and blame it on operator error. She thought I might enjoy the "warmer" feel of the Foundation line better. I rate myself as an advanced adventuresome skier.

I don't quite trust my Zest on firmer and steeper condition yet although I haven't worried much on my local rolling terrain. I think of Yvette for soft Hokkaido powder, as I skied with a gal at Niseko inbound on Yvette Pure3.

Let us know what you end up deciding, better yet, please post and share an Argentina bc trip report with us!

@Monique, 4 years ago a Black Diamond store staff in SLC told me in general, BD has wider last than Dynafit than Scarpa. Maybe a gently used pair of BD AT boots can be found online...

 

[Monique]

@Monique, 4 years ago a Black Diamond store staff in SLC told me in general, BD has wider last than Dynafit than Scarpa. Maybe a gently used pair of BD AT boots can be found online...

I just don't want to deal with it anymore, you know?

I'll keep trying to get the current pair to work.

 

[Wooley12]

My first AT boots were used Scarpa Lasers that required a 3/8" midsole under the liner and two pairs of socks to fit. It's good to start with a boot that matches with your foot like in alpine boots. IME

Personal fitness and vertical gain goals has a lot to do gear selection. The picture is my son and grand daughter climbing 2200' vert to go to a Summer Solstice party. He tours mostly on a Rossi 7 something or DPS Pure 99. He has Dynafit ST on Pon2oons for side country and farther powder. I think the skins weigh a much as my boots.