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Bob Barnes

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Hey Dean--great thread starter! I have a question to get us going: could you post your definitions of what you would consider to be the basic essential terms used to describe and differentiate freestyle maneuvers--terms like "D-Spin," "cork," and other off-axis, inverted, and upright jumps and spins, "switch" and "fakie," "mute grabs" and various other standard grabs, and such? Whatever words you think it would be helpful to understand--the basic freestyle repertoire--it would be a great little glossary to help people get a basic understanding of essential freestyle lingo. There is very little definitive information about this stuff currently available online.

(I hope you don't already regret starting this thread!) ;)

Best regards,
Bob
 

Philpug

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This is actually a very interesting topic, there are a bunch of old dogs here and I know some are willing to learn new tricks as long as we don't break a hip. I would love to get @Bob Salerno to check in here too, Bob was a world champion freestyler in the 70's and we just recently had a discussion on how "free" freestyle has become of late. Myself, I try to throw a "Helicopter" at least once a season and I think it is a maneuver that many here can do along with spread eagles, daffys, back scratchers, mule kicks and the fore mentioned tricks that @Bob Barnes brought up. Dean, if you would like to do an article "Freestyle Defined" for our January release, that would be great.
 

crgildart

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How many kids you got on the team? I skied for Buck Hill Freestyle back in high school and we usually had somewhere between 15 and 25 kids back then there.
 
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dean_spirito

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Great post @Bob Barnes! I think starting by defining some freestyle vocabulary is a great way to get the ball rolling here. Although I probably should start by saying that there is now a distinction in the industry between "freestyle" and "freeride". Freestyle generally refers to competitive moguls, while freeride encompasses park, pipe, and big mountain. When I started the thread, I used "freestyle" because I assumed it would resonate a little stronger with the crowd here. But generally speaking, the skiing I participate in, coach, and will most likely be discussing here falls into the realm of "freeride".

I'm obviously not going to sit here and define every single trick out there, as there are probably hundreds, if not thousands of variations. But I will attempt to describe all of the fundamental tricks upon which all others have evolved. Lets get started!

When I begin to teach someone who is new to the freeride world, I break down tricks into three basic categories; spins, flips, and grabs. Spins should be pretty self explanatory. They are horizontal or x-axis rotations that generally increase by 180* (i.e. 180s, 360s, 540s, 720s, 900s, 1080s, etc.). The only caveat here is that spins can be off-axis, meaning that the skier's body does not necessarily need to be straight up and down (think helicopters back in the day). Today, we often do off-axis spins which fall into two categories; cork and bio. A cork spin is an off-axis spin where the skier's upper body leans back towards the takeoff of the jump, while a bio is an off-axis spin where the skier's upper body leans forward towards the landing of the jump. These off-axis spins have become much more common today than straight spins.

Now an off-axis rotation is only a spin so long as the skier's feet do not travel above his or her head. The second that begins to happen we are now doing an inverted aerial, which leads us to our flip category. Flips are vertical or y-axis rotations in which the skiers feet travel over his or her head. Backflips, frontflips, and sideflips are probably the most familiar to most. But this concept of off-axis rotations applies to flipping as well. Flat spins, misty flips, rodeos, and D-spins, are all types of flips (trick names can be somewhat misleading, probably because they were invented by kids). Bob had mentioned a D-spin in his post so lets start there. A D-spin, named after Mike Douglas, is essentially a back full, or a backflip 360. It is called a spin, but the second the skier's feet travel over his head, it is technically a flip. Now if anyone recalls the 2002 Winter Olympics, you may remember when Jonny Moseley debuted the "dinner roll". At the time, FIS prohibited inverted aerials in competition. Moseley was attempting to get around this rule by turning the inverted D-spin, into an actual spin. The "dinner roll" name never really caught on in the freeski community. We now refer to this trick simply as a cork 720; two off-axis rotations in which the skier's feet never travel above his head.

A flat spin (again another misnomer), is actually a flip. It is essentially an off-axis backflip where the skiers feet travel over one shoulder, rather than directly over the head. A flat spin develops into a rodeo as the skier begins to add more spin to this flip. I think this may be a difficult concept to explain in words, so I will eventually get around to posting some videos that demonstrate some of these subtle differences. But for now, think of rodeos as an off-axis backflip with a spin.

Finally the misty flip. This trick is essentially the opposite of a rodeo; it is an off-axis frontflip with a spin. Again, I will post videos for clarification.

Moving on to grabs. A grab is anytime the skier physically touches one or both of their skis with their hand. There are so many grab variations that it would be futile to attempt to describe all of them here. Perhaps we can do a "grab of the day" type thread where I introduce and describe a new grab each day! But Bob had mentioned a mute grab, so I will start there. A mute grab is a classic that we have all seen at some point. Jonny Moseley may have really put this one on the map when he introduced the mogul community to the 360 mute in the 1998 Winter Olympics. A mute grab involves reaching across the body and grabbing the outside edge of your ski. For example, I can reach with my right hand and grab my left ski. When I say outside edge, I simply mean the edge that is furthest from my hand (not to be confused with inside and outside as it refers to turning). This is important to understand because the world of grabs is riddled with subtle nuances and variations. If I were to reach with my right hand and grab the "inside edge" (i.e. the closer edge) of my left ski, I would be doing a critical, not a mute.

I'm going to finish up here with a very quick explanation of switch skiing. "Switch" refers to skiing backwards. I can takeoff a jump switch or I can land a trick switch. Or I can takeoff and land switch, like when I'm doing a switch 360 or switch 720. In a later discussion, I will attempt to explain how taking off switch can fundamentally change our understanding of certain off-axis rotations. For example, the motion I use to do a misty flip is the same motion I use to do a switch rodeo. The reason is because these tricks are essentially opposites of one another. When I turn around and do a misty flip backwards, I am now doing a rodeo. Make sense?? Believe me, I do this stuff everyday and I'm sometimes confused about certain tricks.

Anyway, I hope that helps to clarify a few things and I hope that it can help contribute to a substantive conversation about this stuff. I've tried to post these types of threads elsewhere and they are often shutdown or lose momentum. Please post any questions you may have as I'm sure my abbreviated description of this stuff has left many of you more confused than before!
 

Dwight

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I have two daughters that want to learn front flips and back flips. The youngest(13) will hopefully be doing back flips, if we get some snow in Wisconsin. Have done lots of trampoline work, would like to do a few air bag jumps too, but don't think we see one soon.
 

jmeb

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One of my goals this year is to learn, and confidently land, 360s. I've never spun of jumps before this past weekend, where this was my first little attempt:


Perhaps you can recommend a progression to get myself up to a 360?

Also interested in what grabs one should learn first for those times a little shifty isn't enough ;). How do I not drop my pole when trying a grab...especially since I ride sans pole straps?
 

Philpug

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One of my goals this year is to learn, and confidently land, 360s. I've never spun of jumps before this past weekend, where this was my first little attempt:


Perhaps you can recommend a progression to get myself up to a 360?

Also interested in what grabs one should learn first for those times a little shifty isn't enough ;). How do I not drop my pole when trying a grab...especially since I ride sans pole straps?
a913e193_Phil_helimontage3fpssmcrbb.jpg


I have a short video somewhere from Land of the Giants. I will see if I can find it.
 
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dean_spirito

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One of my goals this year is to learn, and confidently land, 360s. I've never spun of jumps before this past weekend, where this was my first little attempt:


Perhaps you can recommend a progression to get myself up to a 360?

Also interested in what grabs one should learn first for those times a little shifty isn't enough ;). How do I not drop my pole when trying a grab...especially since I ride sans pole straps?

Great! I'm glad you asked this question because so many people want to learn 360s, but have no idea where to start.

There are a ton of progressions that will help develop the confidence and muscle memory to spin a 3. First things first, start inside on a flat surface while wearing tennis shoes (or some other comfortable footwear). Starting from an athletic stance, practice "popping" off the ground and using your core muscles to pull your knees into your chest. Focus on bringing your knees to your chest, NOT your chest to your knees. Keep the chest tall and your visual focus out in front of you. Don't look down! When we are skiing we always need to keep our eyes looking where we are going, not where we have been. Keeping your hands out in front of you will also help to prevent the "pop" and knee retraction from pulling your upper body into the backseat.

Next try adding a 180. Very important that in a 360 progression we make sure that our upper and lower body are rotating together, even when doing a 180. We DON'T want to see any upper/lower body separation for this one. That is the biggest pitfall for people that are comfortable spinning 180s, but just can't get that 360 around. Engage your core muscles to create a strong connection between your upper and lower halves. Also, and this may sound different from everything you've heard about turning your skis, you must initiate your spin with the upper body, particularly your arms. When flipping and spinning, almost all of the energy is created with your arms. Think of a golfer's back swing. He winds up the upper body in the opposite direction he plans to send the ball. This counter rotation is what allows us to transfer energy in the direction we wish to travel.

So now, as we bend our knees and prepare to "pop" the arms should be "wound up" and hands should be at hip level. If I plan on spinning to the left, my arms should be wound up on my right side. If I plan on spinning to the right, the opposite. As I pop and begin to leave the ground, allow your arms to unwind and make a "t". The energy from unwinding should allow you to complete a full spin. If you struggle to get all the way around, try setting your arms with more intensity as you pop, and try to look in the direction you are trying to spin. Looking in the direction we are attempting to travel is generally a good rule of thumb.

Ok, so we can do 360s on flat ground wearing tennis shoes. Awesome! We're halfway there!! Now lets put our boots on! First thing you will notice is that you can't flex your knees as much. So get used to that. This is the same sensation you will feel when you eventually bring these to snow. The next thing you will notice is that the additional weight on your feet makes everything a tad more difficult. Get used to it because we will only be adding more weight when we click into our skis. Repeat everything above in ski boots.

Moving on. For people that are already comfortable hitting small to medium sized jumps and perhaps throwing a 180, you are probably ready to try this maneuver on an appropriately sized jump. Again, APPROPRIATELY SIZED JUMP! This doesn't mean the smallest jump you can find!!!!! IMO, someone who is new to spinning should not attempt a 360 on anything smaller than 10ft. Small doesn't mean safe. Again, SMALL DOESN'T MEAN SAFE. Choose the right feature. Test the speed so you are comfortable with how to approach the feature. Do a bunch of straight airs or 180s to really dial in the speed of the feature, the timing of the "pop" or takeoff, and the type of landing you are in for. When the time is right, turn off your brain and revert back to the muscle memory you ingrained doing the static drills described above.

Now, for the person who is not comfortable taking it to a jump after the static portion, you may want to explore the other parts the SASC progression; Static, Active, Simple, Complex (us ski folks love acronyms! We have one for just about everything! I'll buy a beer for anyone that know what POP stands for!). Flat spins are a nice way to feel ourselves spinning with our skis on. I like to do these on gentle rollers or transitions in the slope where you can feel a sensation of weightlessness.

Hip style jumps can also be an interesting feature to try spinning on for the first time. For those that don't know, a hip is a type of jump in which the landing is perpendicular to the takeoff. Meaning that when we spin, we can get away with 90* or 270* rotations. For example, if I spin to the left and I takeoff the right side of a hip feature, I can spin 270* and still land smoothly on the landing surface. Make sense? These features can really help a lot when it comes to taking that 180 all the way around to 360. They give us a little room for error as we progress into that next trick.

All that said, no amount of reading is a substitute for getting together on snow with a competent freestyle coach. Please let me know if you have any further questions!
 
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dean_spirito

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How many kids you got on the team? I skied for Buck Hill Freestyle back in high school and we usually had somewhere between 15 and 25 kids back then there.

I coach 5 girls for the entire season through Team Summit and I work with roughly 500 athletes throughout the year, from beginners all the way to pros.
 

James

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What do you mean "not smaller than 10 ft" for the jump? 10 ft high with a sloped landing?
10 ft total drop with landing?
10 foot projectioon?

.
 
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dean_spirito

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Sorry James, I should have specified. When we refer to the size of the jump, we are almost always referring to the distance from the lip to the knuckle. A jump this size requires that the skier travel roughly 12ft to land in the sweet spot, though a long landing can allow the skier to travel considerably further and still catch the transition.
 

kickerfrank

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I have a jib question. When I pop into a tail and my goal is to 270 off, how do you start the counter rotation? I am able to do it but I need a descent amount of rail to get it going. Are their tips to be a little quicker in engaging the rotation?
 

crgildart

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I coach 5 girls for the entire season through Team Summit and I work with roughly 500 athletes throughout the year, from beginners all the way to pros.

Never thought about it that way, but I taught a freestyle specific class for the local school ski club lessons when I worked as an instructor. It was very basic though as I wasn't anywhere near the best freedogger on the team or elsewhere. I just had the insights from being coached myself and I was the only instructor interested in teaching that at the time.

LOL @ the :eek: ten foot kicker definitions versus what was meant. Ya, you can fly 10-12 feet off a 2 foot tabletop with a nicely pitched landing pretty easily but not be more than 3-4 feet high.. That is a pretty good and safe feature to learn a helicopter on..
 
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dean_spirito

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I have a jib question. When I pop into a tail and my goal is to 270 off, how do you start the counter rotation? I am able to do it but I need a descent amount of rail to get it going. Are their tips to be a little quicker in engaging the rotation?

Depends on whether you plan on spinning off frontside or backside. More info por favor.
 

kickerfrank

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Frontside.

To further help with the scenario I approach a rail from just off to the left, pop up and grind with my front tips to the right. I want to 270 out frontside (counter clockwise rotation).
 
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dean_spirito

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Frontside.

To further help with the scenario I approach a rail from just off to the left, pop up and grind with my front tips to the right. I want to 270 out frontside (counter clockwise rotation).

Perfect. Thanks for the additional info. When doing a front 270 off the way you have described, it is important that you line yourself up on the left side of the feature and lock on with your upper body facing the end of the feature (think side slip with a upper/lower body separation). Once you've locked on and are preparing to spin off to the left, it is important that you scissor your skis. What I mean is you should use your back foot as a stable platform and engage the inside edge of your downhill ski by dropping the tail. This friction will allow you to reverse the direction that you were travelling when you hopped onto the feature. At this point you should be able to counter rotate your arms to the right side of your body and prepare to pop with a strong "t" set. On the right feature, it should come right around. Let me know how it goes.
 
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dean_spirito

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This makes me misty eyed. :)

Thanks for the post Trish. I actually forgot all about this clip.

I know I mentioned in a previous post that I would add some videos to clarify some things. This video demonstrates a Misty 720, or a forward flipping 360. I'll be perfectly honest, it isn't the best demo because I was attempting this trick off a natural feature in pretty variable slush. My takeoff is very early, which ultimately contributes to me cutting off my jump. But, that being said, it does demonstrate how important arms can be in generating the energy needed to flip or spin. Definitely one of my favorite tricks to do and one that really isn't done too often anymore (I'm an old timer in the newschool world).
 

Superbman

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What's the best 90mm or narrower twin tip for learning some of these moves, skiing bumps and skiing around the hill?
 

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