Foot shape and exercise

[Plai]

About a month ago (2/16/17), my feet fit my boots fine with just a little heel lift/looseness. So, I go into my local boot fitter and they install "L" pads behind the ankle bones on the liners. The modifications fit well in the warm shop. No hot spots. Can flex the boots.

A month passes before I can get back on the slope (3/19/17). The boots now are really, really snug. The heels are more than just locked in now; the rest of the foot has a variety of the usual hot spots (top of instep, sixth toe, side of ball of foot). The boots continue to be too snug even after I yank out "L" pads. It's so tight, that it's difficult to even flex the boots, and I need to ski standing upright/centered, instead of forward. Not the best of days while on icy-mank .

I usually experience slightly snug boots the first couple of days of the season. Such that, standing in line can be a little painful, but skiing is just fine. A few days in and all is good for the rest of the season. As an estimation of pain, if the beginning of the season is a 4, this Sunday was a 7. I had to stop skiing earlier than I like.

So, I went back to my local boot fitter and they went with a remold and all should be good now. But the experience got me thinking...

What causes (my) foot shape to change?

Certainly weight change is a possibility. Typically I lose during the summer and gain in winter. This season hasn't been too different, so I don't think this experience was all weight change.

What's really changed for me in the last month has been more intense exercise: in the gym and tennis on weekends. I'm in the gym a couple times a week during the work week. The workouts have become more intense with more weight training (dead lifts, kettle-bell clean and squats, squat push presses, etc). I'm wondering if the additional pressure on the feet is a significant contributor.

Also, my tennis on weekends have increased in duration from an 1.5 hrs to closer to 3hrs. Some weekend both days. In particular I played 2.5 hrs on the Saturday before the Sunday ski daytrip. Would all the lateral movement and pounding on the feet cause swelling?

And yes, the increased exercise has led me to consume a *little* more than my usual, but it's usually in the form of a little more (3oz) protein to help repair the muscle damage from exercise.

So, after writing all this, I'm starting to think I need to measure my feet before and after tennis and gym days.

So, what are your thoughts, experiences, advice, etc?

Boots: 2013 K2 Spyne 110 w/ Intuition LuxFit liners.
Me: 5'6" 160#

Moderators: this topic covers rehab, fitness, boots, etc and I thought this forum most appropriate. Please move elsewhere as you desire.

 

[cantunamunch]

*first* notice that the footbed shape in your tennis/gym shoes is likely to be quite different than in your ski boots - and that process of adaptation to the footbed in the ski boot is easily on the painful side of uncomfortable as well as possibly feeling like pain in other parts of your foot and possibly causing some swelling.

IOW I think maybe the intense discomfort is more a question of supported vs. unsupported shape and short-term volume changes rather than long-term (5 weeks +) volume changes.

 

[Plai]

*first* notice that the footbed shape in your tennis/gym shoes is likely to be quite different than in your ski boots - and that process of adaptation to the footbed in the ski boot is easily on the painful side of uncomfortable as well as possibly feeling like pain in other parts of your foot and possibly causing some swelling.

IOW I think maybe the intense discomfort is more a question of supported vs. unsupported shape and short-term volume changes rather than long-term (5 weeks +) volume changes.

Forgot to note that I thought of that question too. I have green super feet in my tennis shoes (and everything else) and Sole in-soles in the ski boots. While the footbeds are shaped a little different, I've been gong a few (>4) years on both.

 

[Erik Timmerman]

Was there a big difference in temperature? Warm days can be a killer on the feet.

 

[Plai]

Was there a big difference in temperature? Warm days can be a killer on the feet.

Yes, Sunday was warm >34F at the top of the morning, but the last few seasons here in CA (think drought ;-) have ended on really warm days too.

 

[Fuller]

My theory is that it's the boots, not your feet. When I started my season I had all four buckles on the first notch and the boots felt snug. Thirty eight ski days (44 calendar) later I had moved all of the buckles at least three notches tighter. Most foams and plastics have some degree of memory and it would make sense (to me at least) that everyday use gradually compresses the liner and if you take a month off it will have time enough to expand.

 

[Plai]

@Fuller that was my initial theory going in too, given that the previous two weeks were "hot" for this time of year. But, the pain was much more than previous "beginning of seasons". Also, when I presented that idea to the boot fitter(s), they said it takes like 240F to reform the Intuition liners. That said, I'm of the mind to spend a couple-three weeks before the beginning of next season conditioning my feet, the boots to each other before getting on the snow.

Another thought: I'm thinking of trying on my boots after a few hours of tennis to see if it's tennis. Now a question with this track is: sample right after, wait a few hours, or approx 24 hours (like last weekend). Hmmm....

The things we do "to know". ;-)

 

[James]

People tend to find boots get looser in the afternoons. When skiing all day.

Perhaps if you put your boots on to do some excercises once a week? The feet might stay more used to compression. With cat tracks...

 

[Tricia]

Was there a big difference in temperature? Warm days can be a killer on the feet.

Yes, Sunday was warm >34F at the top of the morning, but the last few seasons here in CA (think drought ;-) have ended on really warm days too.

This is one good theory, but also, its been a few weeks and the liners may have gone back to original shape a *little* bit.
I can feel a difference in my boots when I gain a few pounds. Doesn't take much.

When I'm doing the L Pad install, I usually put them in front of the ankle instead of behind so they push the heel in the back pocket instead of pushing the foot forward.
Maybe try that?

 

[Plai]

I can feel a difference in my boots when I gain a few pounds. Doesn't take much.

This morning, my belt agrees with you... Hmm.....

 

[Tricia]

This morning, my belt agrees with you... Hmm.....

I remember one day when I was wearing my Tecnica Inferno 110's, we had a bunch of really salty stuff during lunch and my feet killed me after lunch. It felt like someone swapped my 23.5 for a 22.5 during lunch. When I took my boots off, sure enough, my feet had swelled.
This can also happen when you're skiing on a hot day.

 

[markojp]

Some thoughts. Those super feet green and the sole insoles are pretty much at the opposite ends of the shape spectrum, so much so that one maybe clearly relatively 'correct' and the other completely off. Was the boot footbed you purchased trimmed properly? Can you take them out and see if the outline matches the original stock insole? In my experience, relatively few people are a natural arch fit for the Sole insoles. It's also possible that the insole you bought was fit for length of your foot and not the shape of your arch. Also, is it possible that the new insole has been inserted on top of the original? And if volume is a problem, which color Sole were you sold? None of the above is meant to throw your fitter under the bus, but even great people make mistakes if momentarily distracted, etc...

 

[Plai]

@markojp yes, the Soles in-soles are trimmed and fit the liner well. I've been using them since getting the boots 4 years ago. Yes, the original footbed was removed; new footbed is not on top of original.

Yes, my preference is for Superfeet, but their lowest volume ones (at the time) had too much volume for me. As mentioned, I have greens in all my other footwear and couldn't/wouldn't live without them.

@Tricia I thought of the salty meal(s) too. The previous two meals (previous night's dinner and breakfast) were saltier than my usual. So, water retention issues likely.

 

[markojp]

Plai,
I'd re-examine the boot footbed. If you ski enough, maybe it's time for a custom?

 

[Plai]

@markojp I appreciate the suggestion. Let's just say that I had custom ortho's done for my street shoes at one time. I much prefer superfeet greens.

 

[markojp]

A custom ortho for a shoe is a different creature than one for a boot. Most shoe othod's have no place in a ski boot IMHO... Baby and the bathwater.

The green Superfeet have a much less pronounced arch than the Sole which makes it the source worth looking at.

 

[raytseng]

Paul,
You mentioned you did a day trip, that means if you're coming from the bay area, you were sitting in a car for at least 3hours and then gaining 8000feet in elevation. That could also be adding to the situation.

Not a full solution, but have you tried warming your boots in the morning? Use a bootdryer/bootwarmer? like a travel dryguys or similar with an car inverter for the whole drive or at least the last hour? For me this helps a bit and is like if I'm on the 2nd hour of skiing at opening.

 

[Plai]

@raytseng In the last 3 years, my usual year has 4-6 day trips in it, mixed in with 2-3 day family trips. My goal is to ski almost every other weekend, though somehow I usually miss March. This is the first time a mid-year day trip had this experience. This year I'm actually getting in less day trips due to road/wet-weather conditions.

Like you, as the day progresses, my boots usually feel more comfortable. On a larger level, as the season progresses, my boots usually feel looser.

 

[raytseng]

can also just be the cruel passage of time where the younger version of you didnt get swollen feet in the morning but current you does. lol.

 

[LiquidFeet]

Do consider that your feet may not be swollen in the am, but dehydrated (and thus smaller) in the afternoon.
How much H20 or equivalent do you drink during a ski day?