Dragging the Inside Hand on Steeps

[agreen]

After I pole plant and am at the bottom portion of the turn I often notice my inside hand dragging on the snow. This became very apparent while not wearing gloves during my most recent Mammoth trip. I had some knuckle abrasions. This only occurs on the steeper slopes. I would estimate about 40*. Does this mean I am backseat? Does this mean I am not keeping my chest pointing down the hill enough? Or is it a typical occurrence on steeps? Thanks for any help!

 

[LiquidFeet]

Clarification:
You are pole planting with your downhill hand and at the same time the uphill hand is knuckle-to-snow?
Or you plant the pole and immediately notice you just had to raise your uphill hand up off the snow to make the pole plant?
Or something else?

 

[Rod9301]

I think it means you are leaning to the inside. There's no way you could touch the snow with your inside hand on a 40 degree slope if you're angulating.

 

[agreen]

Clarification:
You are pole planting with your downhill hand and at the same time the uphill hand is knuckle-to-snow?
Or you plant the pole and immediately notice you just had to raise your uphill hand up off the snow to make the pole plant?
Or something else?

I pole plant with the downhill hand and that same hand is the one that drags as I complete the turn around it but it doesn't happen immediately.

 

[LiquidFeet]

40 degrees is pretty steep. The slope above you is right there like a wall. It's not so hard to touch.
Outer Limits at Killington is 29 degrees, as is Mach Schnell at Snowbird.
Al's Run at Taos is 31 degrees.
Pallavicini at ABasin ranges from 32 degrees in one section to 40 degrees in another.

numbers from: https://www.skibum.net/do-it-up/comparing-steepness-of-ski-trails/

 

[agreen]

The abrasion occurred on the upper portions of Hangmans Hollow at Mammoth. I may be minimizing the 40* actually. I occasionally feel it drag on less steep runs as well but it could be that I prefer to turn on the bumps and the backsides of the bumps are steeper. If you look at my handle pic you can see my left hand getting close to the snow. This pic was on about 25-30* terrain with kind of a funky double fall line. I think I have a decent amount of angulation going on which goes against what Rod states above. Thanks again.

 

[4ster]

If you are skiing the steeps & attaining the angles required for dynamic turns, your inside knee, hip & hand will all get close to the snow. In some circumstances that hand will graze the snow. However, it can also be an indicator that you are a). letting your hips & shoulders square up with your skis, b). using upper body rotation to hurry the turn completion, c). leaning into the hill.

Ideally the inside shoulder, arm, hip, knee & foot all stay slightly higher & ahead of the outside...

...but as soon as one or more of those indicators gets lazy , this is the outcome (inside ski slips slightly forward, hips square up, shoulder drops back, bend at waist & inside hand hits the snow).

We were skiing the Avi chutes off Lincoln Mountain at Mammoth over Memorial weekend & the local we skied with claimed that they were 47 degrees. If that is the case even for a short section, I could see how many of the pitches off the top of the Gondola or chair 23 could approach 40 degrees.

 

[4ster]

The abrasion occurred on the upper portions of Hangmans Hollow at Mammoth. I may be minimizing the 40* actually.

A couple of posts while I was writing mine.
Hangman's is one of the steepest runs regularly skied at Mammoth. I agree that it may be steeper than 40*, at least till you are through the choke.
Anyway, when the inside hand graze happens to me I use it as a reminder to pull things back into alignment & things seem to go better

 

[agreen]

Thanks 4ster. I had a feeling it was a sign of something bad. It seems to drag when I feel a bit out of my comfort zone. Do you think a way to combat it is to push my hand forward after the plant kind of like in the bumps?

 

[François Pugh]

Could be your hand is too bar back. Are you letting the pole touch drag it back by hanging on a little too long?

 

[4ster]

Thanks 4ster. I had a feeling it was a sign of something bad. It seems to drag when I feel a bit out of my comfort zone. Do you think a way to combat it is to push my hand forward after the plant kind of like in the bumps?

Best is to not let it get there , easier said than done.
To answer your question, better to "keep" your hand forward than to "push" it there but pushing it is better than leaving it back or low. I will often use a double pole swing/plant (both consciously & as a reaction) when I get a bit behind or out of balance. It is important to understand that what the hands do is secondary to what's going on with the rest of the body. The root is to get some functional tension & alignment going with the inside half. (foot, knee, hip, shoulder - slightly higher & forward of the outside).

 

[agreen]

Could be your hand is too bar back. Are you letting the pole touch drag it back by hanging on a little too long?

Good call. I think so. I think when I get a bit uncomfortable in the steeps I may be holding on to the plant for added security/balance and I think the solution is what 4ster says above about keeping my inner half ahead of the outer half. I imagine this probably feels like you're falling down the steep slope and your skis are catching you before you plummet to your demise. I have not achieved that sensation yet but I really want to.

 

[4ster]

I imagine this probably feels like you're falling down the steep slope and your skis are catching you before you plummet to your demise. I have not achieved that sensation yet but I really want to.

^BINGO!^
That's why skiing Hangman's is sooo fun

 

[Kneale Brownson]

When I teach pole touches, I emphasize that after the touch, the hand must move forward. I use the phrase, "up and over" to describe the hand motion as the skier passes the pole basket.

 

[agreen]

When I teach pole touches, I emphasize that after the touch, the hand must move forward. I use the phrase, "up and over" to describe the hand motion as the skier passes the pole basket.

I've never heard that one before and I really like it. I can feel it in my mind. Thanks Kneale!!!

 

[LiquidFeet]

Ever drive a stick shift? Shift into 3rd gear. Hand goes forward, up and over in a slight arc, as you do this. Same for the pole plant. Hand goes forward, up and over, as Kneale says. Keep it there, forward, as you allow the pole tip to exit the snow. Done!

 

[Frankly]

If you can't see your hands you're doing it wrong.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

@4ster do you instruct in Tahoe now or are you still at Snowbasin?

 

[4ster]

@4ster do you instruct in Tahoe now or are you still at Snowbasin?

Neither, 14 yrs. at Snowbasin & most recently at Powder Mountain but off the radar this season. I was in Tahoe before relocating to Utah in 2000.

 

[Pat AKA mustski]

Neither, 14 yrs. at Snowbasin & most recently at Powder Mountain but off the radar this season. I was in Tahoe before relocating to Utah in 2000.

Let me know us know where you land!