Comparison Review Atomic Vantage 90cti vs. Black Crows Orb?

Discussion in 'Gear Reviews and Comparisons' started by vanhoskier, Apr 20, 2017.

  1. vanhoskier

    vanhoskier aka Wendy Skier

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    Anyone ski both of these and able to post a comparison?
     
  2. Superbman

    Superbman Putting on skis Skier

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    This is a fun comparison!
     
  3. Tricia

    Tricia The Velvet Hammer Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    I have not skied the Black Crows. I have skied the Vantage series. I feel like the flat Vantages tend to be a little vague, but the system Vantages are super fun and snappy.
    I really need to get on some Black Crows.
     
  4. Jilly

    Jilly Lead Cougar Skier

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    I had the Vantage 90 cti's out for a day at Whistler. With the metal they are a little stiff. But not that it really mattered. I was thinking about ordering them for next season, but then demo'd the 95W and ordered them. Less stiff.
     
  5. Ken_R

    Ken_R Getting off the lift Skier

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    I demoed the Vantage 90cti at Loveland last year IIRC. It was pretty meh. A bit "pingy"? brittle feeling and stiff. Not great balance between the tip and tail. Tip felt somewhat soft and all mountain like but the tail felt stiff. It was just ok. I made two runs and switched it at the demo shop for something else.
     
  6. vanhoskier

    vanhoskier aka Wendy Skier

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    Yes, I flexed the 90cti in a shop last weekend and it felt stiff. Thanks for the info!
     
  7. vanhoskier

    vanhoskier aka Wendy Skier

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    Yes, I flexed the 90cti and just by hand flex, it felt stiff. i'm looking for the flex of the 95 in a 90mm ski.
     
  8. Jilly

    Jilly Lead Cougar Skier

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    I didn't notice that much difference between the 90 and 95 wrt the waist. Loved the 95W in the bumps under the 7th heaven chair. Possibly the turning radius is the same. Have to look it up.
     
  9. Ken_R

    Ken_R Getting off the lift Skier

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    The thing is some skis feel stiff in the store but when skiing they feel great. An example of that is the Head Monster 88. Felt mega stiff in the shop but on the hill it felt great, easy to ski, maneuverable, fun and comfortable since it absorbed the rough stuff. The 90cti felt somewhat stiff in the store but felt stiffer on the hill and not compliant or playful. Just not a good feeling. So that got me thinking that there is a lot more to ski design and the resulting performance than flex and lots of things work together to make or break a ski. Some work well some just dont or are more one dimensional.
     
  10. vanhoskier

    vanhoskier aka Wendy Skier

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    Good point. Yes, I've had skis that have felt stiff to flex but have a more refined feel on the snow...and skis that have a soft hand flex but have some oomph on the snow.

    My Stockli Stormrider 100's (women's version) are pretty stout, but are so supple that they roll over everything without bouncing me around. The Volkl 90Eight and 100Eight have that "pingy" feel to them (in my opinion)...which is a feeling I want to avoid.

    I had a Monster 78 from around 2008......great ski, but a little too damp for my taste. How do the new ones feel by comparison?
     
  11. Ken_R

    Ken_R Getting off the lift Skier

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    I only demoed the Monster 88 but it had indeed a very refined feel. It was not a super energetic ski since it didnit have a lot of rebound but it was not hard to turn in the least. Held a great edge but I could slide it easily to shut it down when needed but it held a solid carve if you wanted it to in basically many different snow conditions (did not test on pow). Super stable at speed but easy at slower speeds. To me it was just an awesome combination of attributes for ski that I intended to use on firmer resort conditions on and off piste. I would definitely check out the Monsters and the MX Kastles specially if you really despise "pingy" feeling skis!

    So far my experience has been that light, thin skis with carbon are great for the backcountry but in todays overskied resorts they are not good since the slopes get roughed up quickly.
     
  12. vanhoskier

    vanhoskier aka Wendy Skier

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    This.
    Since I do most of my skiing in the East, I want a ski that smooths out the chickenheads and refrozen crud. And in the West, if I'm lucky enough to see powder (as I did this year), it's fairly quickly replaced by chowder and crud. My knees require insulation from that type of textured terrain.
     
  13. Philpug

    Philpug Gathermeister--Utah Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    One of factors that I keep in the back of my mind is "If I was on..." After skiing a ski, I think "Boy, if I was on the XXX today would be the perfect day ski day". After I skied any of the Vantages (other than the Vantage X,), I never thought that. I was never out there on any of my ski days and thought "If I was on the Vantage 100, today would be the be the perfect day". Sure they are nice skis, and while I would be contect to ski them if I had to but they are not inspiring. @Ken_R brings up some good points. I have yet to ski the Black Crows and I have heard nothing but good things about them.
     
  14. vanhoskier

    vanhoskier aka Wendy Skier

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    I agree with your philosophy. My ID Ones are inspiriing. My Stockli SR100's are inspiring. (Both of these I bought undemoed after talking at length with reps from both companies).

    I had a chance to chat with a Black Crows rep via their website. The Orb is more of hard charger; the Captis is a similar width (90mm) ski that is "rockered" at tip and tail. I put that in quotes because the profile pics I see really look more like twintip, not a rockered ski as I understand it. The Black Crows people call it "double beak." The Captis is more playful, no metal, poppy. That seems a little more like what I'm looking for. I've got a hard charger in the Stockli, and it's magnificent, and I only need one of those.

    Now...the length. Size chart says I'm sort of between a 178 and 184. (I'm 178 cm tall, nearly 170 lbs). Backcountry.com rep says the 178; Black Crows rep recommends the 184 for edge length and stability. Go figure.

    I have learned that my 170 Volkl Kenjas are too short, hence why I'm replacing them.

    The Stocklis at 174 and my ID Ones at 176 (no rocker on these) feel just right. Stocklis "could" be longer but they are burly, so no stability issues at all. They are the fastest skis I've ever been on.

    I'm having both lengths sent to my house so I can see and compare. I lose no money by doing so as long as one pair goes back, LOL.

    Any suggestions on what to look for/examine when I see them in person?
     
  15. Tony S

    Tony S aka qcanoe Skier

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    Seems like the 184cm Orbs would have to have an awful lot of rocker to make them your "playful" ski at 8 - 10 cm longer than your "business" skis. For a powder ski that would make sense, but that's not the quiver hole you're filling, right?
     
  16. Philpug

    Philpug Gathermeister--Utah Admin Pugski Ski Tester

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    Will you have them next week when we are in town? If so, bring them to the party.
     
  17. vanhoskier

    vanhoskier aka Wendy Skier

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    Correct. I'm actually looking at the Captis instead of the Orb, now (despite the title to this thread...sorry for the confusion).
    The Captis, unlike the Orb, is a wood-core, no metal, twin-tip, or "double rocker" as Black Crows describe them. Even with that in consideration, I still think 184cm would be too long.
     
  18. vanhoskier

    vanhoskier aka Wendy Skier

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    I should indeed have them! Good idea! ogsmile
     
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  19. Cheizz

    Cheizz Getting on the lift Skier

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    I skied both. I concur wiith what Ken-R said about the Atomics. A weird combination of stiffness and lack of stability for me.And vagueness too. Not my cup of tea.

    The Orb, on the other hand, is very smooth and stability is great, both on piste and in crud. Edgehold is good, snappyness is... well, they're not the sportiest of skis. But they offer great support and there's no real speed limit. Not that I could find, anyway.

    Let's make a deal: we ship some Black Crows from Europe to the US; you send some Renouns back.
     
  20. vanhoskier

    vanhoskier aka Wendy Skier

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    All great info, thanks! Your comment above that I boldfaced is why I changed my mind and decided to go with the Captis instead of the Orb. Now to figure out the length....
     

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