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A reference chart: skills, centerline, sample progressions

john petersen

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Okay...first let me say I am very impressed with the demeanor over here at Pugski...kudos, all!

I would like to share a chart with the community that I developed when going through my level 2 teaching preparation several years ago...The chart was for me a culmination of everything I had learned through PSIA up through that time and I wanted to put it all together in one cohesive visual representation. I needed to take the "component parts": of what I had learned and make them "whole".

What it developed into was a training tool for our young and old instructors alike as it was designed to SUGGEST different ways to teach a segment at different skill levels. It was never meant to be a definitive solution to all teaching scenarios...how on earth could ya do that?, but rather inspire questions about the sample progressions shown on the chart (and how to make them your own, perhaps).

.....and how to work the skills concept into actual skiing. (parts to whole)

Its all about the blend, actually....the "whole"

My questions when starting the process:
Why do I choose a drill?
Does what Im working on when I teach lead to skiing, or am I just doing drills for drills sake?
Am I effective?
Can I bring this drill into a progression, and that progression into skiing so it has meaning?
How many skills can one drill focus on?....is your drill or progression versatile?
does your drill work for one, some or many skill levels?
does your drill work for one, some or many age groups?
Does my drill, progression or coaching promote defensive action or tactical awareness?

Notice that the VENN diagram at the top of the chart shows an nod to the fundamental skills concept.....each with its own translucent color reference, but I have not changed the skills themselves (from the skills concept) as I have not gained enough knowledge yet to be sure I want to do that......the skills concept can hold its own mostly, but is only part of the equation.
**also note that I have chosen in the Venn diagram, the camp that believes balance is a result.....not a cause. Im not vehement on this debate, as its a chicken or egg thing.....but its fun to get an argument started and then leave the room! ;)

Each progression has a skills focus and corresponding color reference. if a progression is strong enough, it will lead to a skill BLEND.

Start from outside the chart and work your way into the "centerline" which to me represents skiing. The level of difficulty progresses based on centerline maneuvers and ski trail difficulty icons as you work your way down the chart.

Remember...this chart is designed to inspire questions and the hope that you will want to replace MY progressions or drills with YOUR OWN.....always better that way.

if you go through the chart and make up your own stuff, or at least theorize your own progressions, you can always test them out on your fellow instructors! ;) This exercise will help with the question most ski schools hear from instructors; "how can I learn all the exercises so my bag of tricks is really full of good stuff?"....well the answer to that, is that you eventually throw away the bag of tricks.
coy answer, isnt it?

boy for an instructor I sure do talk a lot......

here is the chart.
I hope some of you can find it useful!

Let me know if you are having problems seeing the content.

JP
 

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  • Movement Corridor top to bottom 2017 .pdf
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Mendieta

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Nice, JP! The PDF looks good! Where would rotary drills for the more advanced skies fit in the chart? Most seem in the wedge stages. How about bumps, when would you introduce them? (I am a "student", not an instructor) How about things like Javelin/whitepass turns, would those be in the RR area?

In terms of your brainstorming about skills, and why we are doing them. I think it is great for instructors to think that way. From a learner perspective, it helps so much when the instructors explains WHY you are doing the drill you are doing :)

Thank you for sharing!
 
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john petersen

john petersen

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Nice, JP! The PDF looks good! Where would rotary drills fit in the chart? Bumps? (I am a "student", not an instructor) How about things like Javelin turns, would those be in the RR area?
In terms of your brainstorming about skills, and why we are doing it. From a learner perspective, it helps so much when the instructors explains WHY you are doing the drill :)
Thank you for sharing!

Hi, Mendieta

you are very welcome!....

I dont want you to get the impression that rotary drills (or any drill) fit into only one category.
rotary drills can be pivot slips on one end of the spectrum to RR tracks on the other. with pivot slips we need to add edging and other skills to get to skiing. With RR tracks, we need to add rotary and other skills to get to skiing...
The thing to understand is that I am trying to (was trying to myself then) expand what I knew about the skill BLEND. How do the skills blend with one another. what does this mean in terms of our skiing performance? I think it comes down to versatility through better understanding.

pivot slips on the learning center involve the same movements and skills that they require in moguls......HOW to use them in moguls requires a more specific focus, however where we change the duration, intensity, rate and timing of some of those movements.
How do you use pivot slips tactically?....(how can it help you?)

What are javelin turns good for?...balance? counter? pressure on the outside ski? active inside ski?

This quoted from Kneale Brownson over at Epic:
"A Javelin Turn involves turning the tip of the unweighted inside ski across the tip of the weighted outside ski. The purpose is to force the inside hip to turn toward the fall line. In order to do that, the skier must move the hips more inside to maintain balance, thereby creating greater edge angle. Optimal performance of the Javelin exercise is to lift the inside ski shortly after completion of an early weight transfer so that the ski can be aimed down the fall line, and then kept pointed down the fall line while the outside ski turns farther and farther off the fall line".

How many skills can you pick out of this description?
-turning the tip: rotary
-weighted outside ski: pressure control
-inside hip to turn towards the fall line: rotary (in relation to countering movements)
-greater edge angles: edging
-lift the inside ski: pressure control
-early weight transfer: pressure control
-outside ski turns farther and farther: rotary

***all of this, as it was then, assumed that balance encompassed the whole deal, or perhaps was a result of it

Instructors tend to give you hints or ask leading questions about the sensations you are getting. so I apologize for going into that mode here!

What ever exercise or task you do, as you said, the WHY is so very important. so is the how. Exercises are just a way to show you how a PART of skiing can work, but they are never HOW to ski.....just a window into how to ski with versatility or better understanding.
 

Mendieta

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Great points about how many of the fundamental roles come into play for just one drill (javelin). I love learning to "think ski", which is why it's such a privilege to have access to so many instructors' mind through the ski school here. And also for you guys to share with each other, it's all great.

As for rotary, yes, I was referring to primarily pivoted turns (needed in short turns/moguls), rather than primarily carved turns. But, to your point, both need rotary skills if done efficiently (which is one of the goals of the javelin).

Skating: I am intrigued, I love the idea of learning skating. It's probably an underrated skill? (not by racers, of course).
 
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john petersen

john petersen

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Great points about how many of the fundamental roles come into play for just one drill (javelin). I love learning to "think ski", which is why it's such a privilege to have access to so many instructors' mind through the ski school here. And also for you guys to share with each other, it's all great.
As for rotary, yes, I was referring to primarily pivoted turns (needed in short turns/moguls), rather than primarily carved turns. But, to your point, both need rotary skills if done efficiently (which is one of the goals of the javelin).
Skating: I am intrigued, I love the idea of learning skating. It's probably an underrated skill? (not by racers, of course).

Mendieta, yes, this is a great resource for all who take the time to give it some thought and try it out.....Very glad for these forums!

Skating is a very good exercise for helping us move "into the future" and learn what it is like to feel more than one category of range of motion while progressively pushing off a progressively edged outside ski to a progressively edged outside ski......it works uphill, across the hill, through the fall line....

we can really feel the forces from the snow building and how we manage those forces, staying in balance while also moving towards the next skate. its another one of those exercises that has some good merit as it has depth and can address most of the fundamental skills.

can you name the primary skill?...(sorry, instructor mode alert)
can you build a progression that leads to skating, and then moves past it to blend into actual skiing?

in a very linear and traditional fashion....building a progression is made easier if you think about how they are constructed and destructed.

How do you reverse engineer skating for folks just learning it? Where do you start?.....if you started with a simple boot exercise what could it be?(no skis, just boots).
Great skiing movements that incorporate expert movement patterns can start with boot exercises! build on those movements taking them into skiing and you will have strong fundamental skills when the terrain gets steeper......it will be ingrained....

what do the skis do when skating?...what does the body do to react to or cause this to happen?...
What do we want the ski to do?
what does it teach us?

I like this drill because it can lead to what we call "skate to shape"...which is holding on to the edges long enough for carving to start taking place (oops just gave it away) blend the shaped skates from ski to ski and carving turns are the result.......be sure to blend in all the other nuances that make skiing fun and enjoyable and you have just added more tools to your "toolbox"

very cool.

JP
 

Mendieta

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Mendieta, yes, this is a great resource for all who take the time to give it some thought and try it out.....Very glad for these forums!

Skating is a very good exercise for helping us move "into the future" and learn what it is like to feel more than one category of range of motion while progressively pushing off a progressively edged outside ski to a progressively edged outside ski......it works uphill, across the hill, through the fall line....

we can really feel the forces from the snow building and how we manage those forces, staying in balance while also moving towards the next skate. its another one of those exercises that has some good merit as it has depth and can address most of the fundamental skills.

can you name the primary skill?...(sorry, instructor mode alert)
can you build a progression that leads to skating, and then moves past it to blend into actual skiing?

in a very linear and traditional fashion....building a progression is made easier if you think about how they are constructed and destructed.

How do you reverse engineer skating for folks just learning it? Where do you start?.....if you started with a simple boot exercise what could it be?(no skis, just boots).
Great skiing movements that incorporate expert movement patterns can start with boot exercises! build on those movements taking them into skiing and you will have strong fundamental skills when the terrain gets steeper......it will be ingrained....

what do the skis do when skating?...what does the body do to react to or cause this to happen?...
What do we want the ski to do?
what does it teach us?

I like this drill because it can lead to what we call "skate to shape"...which is holding on to the edges long enough for carving to start taking place (oops just gave it away) blend the shaped skates from ski to ski and carving turns are the result.......be sure to blend in all the other nuances that make skiing fun and enjoyable and you have just added more tools to your "toolbox"

very cool.

JP

Ha Ha! You did give it away, but I was already thinking edging, in my defense :) I also think there is a lot of pressure practice, particularly ski transfer (obviously), and also the pressure to balance for-aft? What I fail to do, and I admire more advanced skiers do, is to really run on the edge forward, while skating. I need to watch some video and/or get some instruction on this. Maybe this Saturday? Ummm ... :)

Thanks tons!
 

mdf

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In addition to its drill value, it is worth developing a solid skate just so you can get around the flats (traverses, base areas, etc) without it taking forever.

It seems to me there are three skills that go into skating. Balance and edging, obviously, but you also need to develop a feel for the timing and rhythm -- when do you put the next ski down? Not sure which bucket that goes in.
 
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john petersen

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In addition to its drill value, it is worth developing a solid skate just so you can get around the flats (traverses, base areas, etc) without it taking forever. It seems to me there are three skills that go into skating. Balance and edging, obviously, but you also need to develop a feel for the timing and rhythm -- when do you put the next ski down? Not sure which bucket that goes in.

That goes in a bucket that I added in my own head a long time ago...."rhythm and flow"....yes good point. I think that category fits just outside fundamental techniques and starts to investigate values.....what is good skiing?

so Mendieta,

If you work backwards from the art of skating......break it down to component parts....you can focus on fore/aft drills standing, then sliding.
my question to myself would be "What do I have to do so I can stay balanced over my feet MOVING FORWARD?" I have to be really "2 footed", or "independently footed"
Boot exercise;
-March in place pausing longer and longer between each march.
-widen the feet a little and do the same thing. (what changes?)
-widen the feet even more....
Skis on:
-Try a straight run on very shallow terrain with fore aft movements exploring your functional range of motion.....is it easier to move the upper body back and forth, or the feet and legs?
-march on skis pausing longer and longer between each march step. (how are you doing fore/aft?)
-widen the feet. same thing. (what changes? what do you have to do fore/aft to stay in balance?)
-glide longer on each foot. ( feel the edge control with tiny muscles in the feet and ankles?)
-Skating is more big toe to big toe glides stepping off progressively edged skis while moving forward and arcing....upper body quiet, lower body active. Make your arcs nice and looooooonnnnnggggg. You are arcing into and out of a slightly countered position between your upper and lower body....(heard this before?)

lightbulb goes on!......you got it...you can glide linking nice one footed arcs. You begin to add powerful extension moves of the new outside leg as you put the ski down and engage the edges, creating, yes, creating speed. This is the essence of speed control. (infinity move values???)

this will add beautifully to your tool box for upper level skiing. experiment with new terrain, but keep the exercises or parts of the exercises the same to reinforce the new sensations. (the ones that are working, of course!)

**finesse: you girls tend to own this...(I know, I know, stereotype alert...dont send hate mail)....but taking it further......what if that lifted inside ski tended to swing under you a little as it left the ground so it helped with a smooth weight transfer and longer glide on the other ski?...(it also allows for longer more progressive extension) This represents the transitions between turns, basically. Then as it swings back out you begin lowering it back down. You time it so the ski touches down flat for just a split second as you continue to roll onto it and begin edging and extending it again?

then the dance starts.... try slow ones, fast ones, light ones, heavy ones, garlands....

look up Charleston(dance on inside ski to inside ski) , Two foot (dance on outside ski to outside ski), Javelin (outside edges with hip counter dance)

Question: can skating be refocused to a pressure control drill? How?Why?
;)

RR track Tie in: (no pun intended with railroad track ties....if you have to explain the pun, is it still a pun?)
-link very very shallow RR tracks on nearly flat terrain exploring the same range of motion as above, same focus (what movements do you have to add to the straight run?)
-as speed slowly increases with pitch, but still very mellow terrain, you will feel yourself beginning to react to some forces. ("centrifugal sensation" is what I call it....thats what we feel. centripetal force is what we are reacting to...but that's for another post!.....)
-what do you begin to do as speed increases to stay in balance when doing this drill?
-giving it away a little, once you feel the weight transfer from outside foot to outside foot....how light can you make your inside foot and keep it moving in the right direction?
Big toe, little toe?
if you pick up the inside ski just a bit as forces build, you step from the little toe side of that foot, right?...can you place it down again on that same spot so it continues to track as if it never left the snow? (explore what is functional)
-can you do this just after you turn?
-just before you begin your next turn?
-between turns? (something needs to change here......)
Now we are getting awfully close to another exercise, right?

RR tracks are very closely related to skating movements once you learn to finesse them...


want to have some fun...make up a progression based on one of the things you are working on and take a lesson exploring the effectiveness of your progression with your instructor...see if it works. As an instructor, I would be intrigued as heck....fun for everyone.

who knows, he may want to steal your progression!

;)


JP
 

Mendieta

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That goes in a bucket that I added in my own head a long time ago...."rhythm and flow"....yes good point. I think that category fits just outside fundamental techniques and starts to investigate values.....what is good skiing?

so Mendieta,

If you work backwards from the art of skating......break it down to component parts....you can focus on fore/aft drills standing, then sliding.
my question to myself would be "What do I have to do so I can stay balanced over my feet MOVING FORWARD?" I have to be really "2 footed", or "independently footed"
Boot exercise;
-March in place pausing longer and longer between each march.
-widen the feet a little and do the same thing. (what changes?)
-widen the feet even more....
Skis on:
-Try a straight run on very shallow terrain with fore aft movements exploring your functional range of motion.....is it easier to move the upper body back and forth, or the feet and legs?
-march on skis pausing longer and longer between each march step. (how are you doing fore/aft?)
-widen the feet. same thing. (what changes? what do you have to do fore/aft to stay in balance?)
-glide longer on each foot. ( feel the edge control with tiny muscles in the feet and ankles?)
-Skating is more big toe to big toe glides stepping off progressively edged skis while moving forward and arcing....upper body quiet, lower body active. Make your arcs nice and looooooonnnnnggggg. You are arcing into and out of a slightly countered position between your upper and lower body....(heard this before?)

lightbulb goes on!......you got it...you can glide linking nice one footed arcs. You begin to add powerful extension moves of the new outside leg as you put the ski down and engage the edges, creating, yes, creating speed. This is the essence of speed control. (infinity move values???)

this will add beautifully to your tool box for upper level skiing. experiment with new terrain, but keep the exercises or parts of the exercises the same to reinforce the new sensations. (the ones that are working, of course!)

**finesse: you girls tend to own this...(I know, I know, stereotype alert...dont send hate mail)....but taking it further......what if that lifted inside ski tended to swing under you a little as it left the ground so it helped with a smooth weight transfer and longer glide on the other ski?...(it also allows for longer more progressive extension) This represents the transitions between turns, basically. Then as it swings back out you begin lowering it back down. You time it so the ski touches down flat for just a split second as you continue to roll onto it and begin edging and extending it again?

then the dance starts.... try slow ones, fast ones, light ones, heavy ones, garlands....

look up Charleston(dance on inside ski to inside ski) , Two foot (dance on outside ski to outside ski), Javelin (outside edges with hip counter dance)

Question: can skating be refocused to a pressure control drill? How?Why?
;)

RR track Tie in: (no pun intended with railroad track ties....if you have to explain the pun, is it still a pun?)
-link very very shallow RR tracks on nearly flat terrain exploring the same range of motion as above, same focus (what movements do you have to add to the straight run?)
-as speed slowly increases with pitch, but still very mellow terrain, you will feel yourself beginning to react to some forces. ("centrifugal sensation" is what I call it....thats what we feel. centripetal force is what we are reacting to...but that's for another post!.....)
-what do you begin to do as speed increases to stay in balance when doing this drill?
-giving it away a little, once you feel the weight transfer from outside foot to outside foot....how light can you make your inside foot and keep it moving in the right direction?
Big toe, little toe?
if you pick up the inside ski just a bit as forces build, you step from the little toe side of that foot, right?...can you place it down again on that same spot so it continues to track as if it never left the snow? (explore what is functional)
-can you do this just after you turn?
-just before you begin your next turn?
-between turns? (something needs to change here......)
Now we are getting awfully close to another exercise, right?

RR tracks are very closely related to skating movements once you learn to finesse them...


want to have some fun...make up a progression based on one of the things you are working on and take a lesson exploring the effectiveness of your progression with your instructor...see if it works. As an instructor, I would be intrigued as heck....fun for everyone.

who knows, he may want to steal your progression!

;)


JP

Thanks much, JP. I didn't have time to answer, but I played with some of this at Rose ten days ago.

Lito Tejada emphasizes the connection between 1000 steps, skating and "expert turns" (ouside to outside ski) on the first of his private lesson videos. What mystifies me, to @mdf 's point above, is prop6elling on a flat, or even slightly uphill. Skating on a slihtly downward slope feels more natural.

Fascinating, all in all, but I don't want to hijack this thread. I love the idea of the progressions in your document and your comments.

 
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john petersen

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The idea of progressions in a basic sense, is pretty linear in nature.....but, when we begin to question how to blend exercises together, like Tejada-Flores suggests, or how to define the nuance and versatility of an exercise or progression, we are on the right track to a more holistic way of thinking: that is...how can I use this stuff so I can add versatility to my skiing.

Your thoughts and example do not hijack the thread, but push the standard progression idea outside its linear based nature....Yeah, Baby!

name the primary skill in the above reference?
secondary skill?

The Venn diagram at the top of the chart contains that blend of skills we strive for. Tejada-Flores shows us HOW to use 3 exercises to help illustrate a point. without watching the whole vid (yet) I bet there is a linear order in which each one was introduced.....

the finer points: in modern skiing, these exercises need to evolve with efficient movement patterns that todays equipment allows.
-skating: active movements in the legs engage inside edges along the skis length throughout while the upper body stays pretty stable. ideally, we see active and progressive tipping of the feet which correspondingly engages the edges of the skis....outside ski engagement blends to outside ski engagement. but it cant stop there.....the leg extension follows the ski out and away from the core while the shape of the modern ski arcs it back in and underneath you again.
your job is to blend the glide of the old ski with the engagement of the new ski......(finess through rhythm and cadence!)
Why is it for me The Beatles "Yellow Submarine" chorus pops into my head??????? ;)
oh, yeah, an important point: we now want to see "extension" in the legs so that it does not affect the upper body or move the hips "straight up".

inefficient examples of skating are stiff legged vertical movements of the whole bod pushing off a fairly flat ski and skidding. (we see stepping off the heal, which promotes a "pop" up move)

thats why herringbone is an important one to master

-skating uphill:
herringbone!
-skating on flats: glide!
-Skating straight down very gently slope: linked glides
-bring it to skiing:
Skate to shape
Blend, blend, blend....

-1000 steps: I can think of a nice progression here from an easy exercise on flat terrain with no edges, to gentle terrain with edges. (but which edges?)

a different but related topic: adding angulation with outside leg extension enhances edge control (in combination with inside leg flexion), How is this similar to 1000 steps or skating?

JP
 
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john petersen

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Thought I would bump this for the start of the season....

Happy skiing!

JP
 

Mendieta

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-1000 steps: I can think of a nice progression here from an easy exercise on flat terrain with no edges, to gentle terrain with edges. (but which edges?)

I would think you want to use corresponding (inside of the turn) edges. So you are practicing balance and relaxed stance in a gentle slope. The beauty of 1000 steps, similar to jumping on your skis, is that it gets you both relaxed and centered for-aft.
 
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john petersen

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I would think you want to use corresponding (inside of the turn) edges. So you are practicing balance and relaxed stance in a gentle slope. The beauty of 1000 steps, similar to jumping on your skis, is that it gets you both relaxed and centered for-aft.

Oh yeah!

which fundamental(s) do(es) this relate to?

hey, this is fun!

;)

JP
 
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john petersen

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oh, I see you are using the traditional BREP model, Grasshopper! very clever, very clever.....

more fun....which fundamental(s)?

now the biggie....which one does the exercise address that gives the skier the biggest overall benefit?
(okay, okay, depends on the skier, so Ill throw that disclaimer in now....I mean in general)

JP
 

Mendieta

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oh, I see you are using the traditional BREP model, Grasshopper! very clever, very clever.....

more fun....which fundamental(s)?

now the biggie....which one does the exercise address that gives the skier the biggest overall benefit?
(okay, okay, depends on the skier, so Ill throw that disclaimer in now....I mean in general)

JP

Ah, Master, let me try again. It seems to me that this is the main fundamental used in 1000 step turns:

·Control the relationship of the Center of Mass to the base of support to direct pressure along the length of the skis

I'll argue why! It seems to me that when balancing on one ski you must get the for-aft pressure distribution right, or you are toast. Also, I think that you don't do this one full blown:

· Control pressure from ski to ski and direct pressure toward the outside ski

Rationale: you are directing pressure from ski to ski, but half of the time you have all the pressure in the inside ski. The next two are probable encouraged by the drill:

· Control edge angles through a combination of inclination and angulation
· Control the skis rotation (turning, pivoting, steering) with leg rotation, separate from the upper body


Rationale: it is probably hard to balance on one ski with a rigid upper body. So the drill probably leads to separation and angulation/inclination. For instance, when you are standing on the outside ski, if you bank, you will probably fall because the other leg is not doing anything (which is why people practice the javelin turns, something I need to work on. Finally, I don't think there is too much to this one, unless you do the drill in chopped up snow, which is well beyond my abilities:

· Regulate the magnitude of pressure created through ski/snow interaction

Did I make any sense, JP?Thanks so much for bearing with me!
 
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john petersen

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BINGO!.....

wow, very well done......I like the way you included the skill blend...very important for big picture success!

and yeah, that totally made sense. As for "bearing with you"?...this is fun! no worries at all.

JP
 

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